Reaching out 🥲

I appreciate you've got a mountain of replies to work your way through OP so I wanted to add some practical suggestions and some life related personal experience.

I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, not even on TV, but I can speak from a lived experience as someone diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, who is married to a man with autism diagnosed in adulthood.

Please keep an open mind about seeking an assessment for your son for ND - it's a VERY broad spectrum. Both my DH and I feel that we would have very different lives had we been supported and diagnosed as children. Sadly there is very little support for adults.

You sound like loving, kind parents who are trying their best and that's half the battle really.

Your son might not be ND, he may be reacting to the trauma of the bullying or experiencing shame and processing the sexual assault he was subject to at school. Equally he may /just/ be a teenage boy who sees no point in hygiene!

I would focus on contacting experienced services for MH and ND like MIND, ADHD foundation, or your local autism service to get advice on potentially having an assessment. You have nothing to lose from the position you are in currently and if the assessment is a positive for ND traits I think both you as parents and your son will honestly benefit from moving forward with full understanding of your son's mental processes.

For short term practical purposes -

Hygiene is clearly a concern and a pattern of behaviour regardless of root cause. Has your son ever said why he doesn't want to brush teeth, wash or comb hair?

If there is a particular aspect or sensory issue at play perhaps some out of the box thinking could help to overcome it.

Some practical non traditional options could be -

• Buy non fragranced baby wipes or the type of wipes used in adult care (Amazon stock these). Ask your son to at least give all intimate areas and his face and neck a going over once a day with a wipe and work up to broaching a proper wash in baby steps.

There are no rinse body foam cleansers available that come out a bit like foaming hand cleanser that can be rubbed into the skin to clean the body, these do not need water or rinsing.

Child toothpastes aimed at 0-6 year olds they come in less strong flavours and although not as good for adults teeth as proper 'adult' toothpaste if he's amenable it would be better than no toothbrushing at all.

Again from the baby aisle you can buy rubber tipped silicone toothbrush heads that go on the finger and can be used to brush teeth it might be less harsh if it's a sensory feel?

There are also dental wipes (sorry baby aisle again!) that are like a wet wipe you can rub across teeth and gums - again not as good as 'proper' toothbrushing but a step in the right direction if your son can cope with them.

Hair - dry shampoo might work for combatting greasiness short term but it does leave your head itchy! There are shampoo shower caps you can buy that are designed primarily for people recovering from surgery - you stick the shampoo hair cap on massage it into the scalp and the. Take off and leave it to air dry.

If he absolutely refuses to wash his hair I would gently suggest to him that a very short hair cut might be preferable it's less likely to get matted, greasy etc and if he is avoidant because it's too much effort it saves him one less hygiene "nag" to deal with

Social isolation and online - there are lots of apps and settings available for parental controls and blocks for both phone and PC. Please please research and implement one of these as your son sounds as though he would be incredibly vulnerable to online bullying and CSE without this.

If your son is a good mimic and enjoys singing would he consider theatre or drama lessons some areas have arts therapy that can include this.

Gamify everything - if he loves gaming you could try some apps online that turn a to do list into a role play quest - searching for RPG To Do List might give you some current ones. It might help to give him some structure and a visual hook and dopamine hit of levelling up when he completes a task.

Apologies for such a long message - I really do feel for you all. Best of luck 🤞🏼

Yes to this, PDA profile is a type of autism that does not reveal itsself through other obvious or traditional ASD traits.
The biggest tell on PDA is that of having low to zero tolerance to be being told what to do or being asked to do something. Then you'll hit this NO response. But there are ways to work around this and help your son move out of his own resistance and into a collaborative relationship. There are techniques that help both you and your child to work around the no's.

I also would suggest that its very common for parents of neurodiverse children to be somewhat unaware of their childs expression is because between you and your husband, alot of these traits are normalised and your entire family context is shaped by your own parwnts neurodivergence.

The next part is take it or leave it. But your responses to people are quite unusual. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Just your response seem to be filtered through an intensely controlled narrative of whose being kind to you and who isnt. So posters have to go well out of their way to delicately convey their good intentions, in order that you dont numb people's response out.
It all seems very tightly controlled.
I would suggest that it would help all of you to reach out more often for support and cast a wider net for help.
It is very important you find out who your son is talking with online. By that I mean, asking to join in with his games. Being in ear shot of his conversations. Appearing at his side to see what type of chat hes engaging with. Parental controls are a must. How to learn how to do All of this is easily accessible online...Good luck.

Boys go through this phase - then snap out of it when they realise girls don't go out with smelly boys.
Perhaps buy him some Lynx?

@LoveAlways1 I don't have anything more to add than already has been suggested but I do want to say you sound like a really lovely mum xx

@FootieMama so if he wants Wi-Fi at home he has to go out every day? I’ve been thinking of doing this with my (ASD) dd. She does go out from time to time, usually out with me for the occasional dinner out or theatre trip. But it’s occasional and I worry about the lack of fresh air and exercise.

How did what you did work in practice?

What was the reason you didn't move him to another school? Was he refusing by then?

Again how do you enforce it @savethatkitty ? I’m going through similar with my 17 year old dd, I can’t physically drag her to the GP.

Can I ask how old your dd is now and what triggered the change @TheAquaMentor ?

As someone who has mental health issues this screams to me of someone who needs help. It’s not normal behaviour. You seem to have pussy footed around your son so now as a 16 year old he has zero respect for you and it’s tough to get him to comply with your requests to deal with his personal hygiene. What sort of future is he going to have ? Seek help for him as soon as possible - your GP maybe ? Or a young person’s mental health organisation.

No problem :)

Sounds just like our son was. No amount of tough love, kind love, consequences, or anything else we tried worked. Not even having a girlfriend encouraged him to brush his teeth or shower more often.

Turns out he had been depressed and struggled with bad social anxiety along with undiagnosed adhd.

As a young adult he's just spent 8.5k to have private dental treatment including 2 implants to sort his teeth out. We've talked about those days and he said nothing we could have done would have helped him, and pressuring him made him dig his heals in even more. Unfortunately sometimes we just have to let them out grow some things.

A couple of practical things.

My daughter is autistic and has recently started using Hismile toothpaste (they sell it in Boots). I thought it was a ridiculous waste of money but have now opened my mind - actually why does it all have to be mint? Why can't it be red velvet or watermelon or whatever?

Spectrum Gaming is a website you might look at. They're experts in safely opening up a dialogue with withdrawn teenagers.

You said he loves cats. Do you have a cat cafe in your area? Would he like a visit there?

Nothing as extreme but my ds had a period of not wanting to go out, issues with personal hygiene. Two things helped at the time. I've said I am concerned with your mental and physical health. Getting out of the house is important for both So the price of Internet access is that you go out once a day. I've got him a gym membership and he would go with his dad but anything can be a good to start. Cinema, bowling, a walk, a trip abroad . You will need to make time for him or his father if he prefers male company.
For the hygiene I took the scientific angle. No nagging or insisting. Just discussing what could happen to his teeth. Taking him to see an hygienist who during the cleaning explained how to clean his teeth etc.
Even if he is neurodivergent I really believe he is likely to be depressed. But even a small amount of exercise will help that. Just use all the tools available to get him out of the house. It won't be as easy as telling him to go out. He probably doesn't even know how to go out if he is been home schooled and doesn't have friends. You will or your husband will need to make an extra efforts to help him find something he likes going with him to start with. A concert if he likes music, etc. Just take him out with you. Don't expect that he will sundelly will start going out by himself. And talk to him. No telling him what to do actually trying to learn what he is up to online, what games he plays. Get him talking. Get close to him. Good luck

Or has ADHD. People with ADHD struggle massively with self care and ODD is often a comorbidity which would explain saying no so much.

The way you speak about your son sounds just like my daughter. She is autistic with a PDA profile and also had adhd... People meet her and ask if we're sure. She didn't show any classic sign of autism or even adhd at all. But she is most definitely both. Since she's been diagnosed I actually found out that I am myself and it sort of dominoes into basically our whole family being one, or both... Which is I guess why no one spotted any behaviour which seemed out of the ordinary... Anywho, all I'm saying is definitely have a look into PDA... AND while you're there, don't forget to keep an open mind for yourself... We'll be all welcome you to the best, most friendly club 😉 ♥️

What he is doing now is not healthy & may be harmful in the long term. Sometimes, an adult knows best & I think this is one of those times where a parent has to make the tough call & say "we are doing this" as opposed to "do you want to".

Hey, so apologies if I address things already covered by other posters.

However. I home educated my twins one boy / one girl. At 14 they went into local college by choice.

But..... my lovely lad from about age 11 / 12 ish really began to struggle with his sexuality. It took some time, growing and confidence to find his way.
With your lad, factor in the abuse I would question whether there is am underlying issue there and something that could be addressed by a specialist therapist. There are some who work via text or email rather than in person.

Lots of teenagers go through the whole grubby great unwashed phase it seems. I'd say physically chuck him in the tub fully dressed if needs be. But that's harsh and won't help.

Please do look into means of finding more info about who he is talking to online. Is it possible the bully has found him and is continuing the cycle? Reach out to a specialist IT advisor who can help you.

Finally the biggest hugs. Parenting teens is a rough ride at best! If you want to chat more my inbox is always open.

Some thoughts fwiw. Sounds like he's been through a lot. Some abuse/bullying, switching schools, and then factor in 2020 lockdowns, where a huge number of kids (and people in general) flocked to online communities and found "friendships" there during uncertain and tough times. Two concerns with the latter (online usage) that might apply to kids even more so than to adults. One would be that computers/online messaging/subpar content/etc. can be addicting, especially for young minds; the easily available content can be mindless or even damaging and distract from more quality endeavors and previous interests. There are studies that include brain mapping that show internet use had similar effects as drug use with regard to addiction indicators. Another aspect would be to watch out for online messaging particularly tailored to the kids/teens. Depression and apathy incidences saw a huge increase overall during the past several years. So many kids were impacted profoundly during developmental years. For some, they're still dealing with it.
What could maybe help you help him? Pursue his interests. If he's interested in singing or maybe even performing, maybe online lessons or a class that could move over to in-person later? There are even voice-over classes that would highlight his skill in accents. You mentioned he's interested in college; looking into college program offerings might inspire him and give him something to work towards. Some of them he might be able to pursue early if he is homeschooling. He might have the time to fit an interesting class/workshop online or in-person into his day. Build from there and maybe he will start to care more about his appearance and taking care of himself. One more thing, 16 sounds old, but he's also still a kid...and your kid. Your guidance with enforcing some rules in a non-punishing but firm sort of way can still go a long way. If he currently has access to being online all night long or alone in his bedroom or the like for hours a day, it would be wise to curtail that. And you may be able to do that better with the offering of interesting classes/activities (singing, performing, etc.) he can pursue instead.

My son is 17 and has been pretty lax on hygiene for around 5 years. He brushes his teeth every day, but not great, his are yellow and full of plaque. And his room stinks to high heaven. As does he at times. I am constantly pulling him on hygiene but as we can’t hold him down and scrub him, what more can we do? My son has ADHD which I think is a slight contributing factor.
However Id be more concerned on his lack of socialising. My son has a part time job and is at colleg 3 days a week. Could you perhaps encourage yours to look for a little job? It’s a concern that he doesn’t have much interaction outside his house. He could become socially anxious to the point of not being able to function in the outside world.
Does he seem happy in himself?

Dear @LoveAlways1
I'm so sorry you're struggling. I recognise everything that you've said (but had to go for a cup of tea before I replied, as I got so angry with the 'tough love' replies..)
Tough love does not & will not work. Stay emotionally as close to him as you can, don't lie to him, don't make appointments he can't get to, etc, as it's important that he knows he can trust you absolutely.
I do think he's ND. I have ND kids, & - well, when you've met one ND kid, you've met one ND kid. They are SO different, what one can tolerate, another can't. It took me a while too to accept that they were ND!

They are wonderful. We're a happy family.

I like @MarchingOnTogether 's post. Very calm, very reasoned.

I got over the cleaning teeth problem by just planting a seed about how important it is to look after our teeth, & how painful it can be if we don't. Then left it, for him to do his own research. Unfortunately I've not cracked regular showers yet, but hopefully it will come.. slowly slowly catchee monkey!

I won't go on at length as I'm sure you're fed up of reading all these posts by now, but, trust yourself. Listen to your intuition about what he needs. You won't go far wrong. Hugs. x

You said early on, he won’t tell you who he’s talking to because you want to know. Maybe he won’t shower etc because you want him to and are making a big deal of it. Now I get why you do this. I’d be the same. It’s natural.

Im just wondering if you stop pushing , will he maybe do more if it’s his own decision… not right away but once he twigs you ( apparently) don’t care any more if he washes or cleans his teeth?
sort of reverse psychology?
He isn’t at school or seeing other people just now so no one but you has to live with the state of him, so I’d be tempted to stop mentioning it for at least a couple of weeks.
Just a thought. I’m sure others have better advice. I haven’t read all pages.