Page 12 | Reaching out 🥲

LoveAlways1 · 2024-10-28T18:46:20+00:00

Hi fellow mums. This is hard to type. I don’t usually reach out, I have spent my life so far supporting myself and others. I’m usually the one people reach out to. However, I’m going to give this a go, so please be kind. I have a 16 year old son. We are a small family, just me, his dad and I. We don’t have any family around to help and, despite him having many Godparents, none of them have made any effort at all to be in his life. He is a clever, talented boy, and isn’t depressed. However, he only brushes his teeth occasionally (about once a week), rarely washes and refuses to cut his hair. It’s very long. I wouldn’t mind this if he looked after it. But he doesn’t. We (all three of us) have always had a loving, harmonious, supportive relationship, in a peaceful environment (i.e. no trauma, arguments etc). We love him and care about him very much and we have talked with him about the importance of looking after himself (what will happen if he doesn’t, what will happen if he does etc) many many times but to no avail. We have tried everything (taking away privileges, rewards etc). Nothing is working. His teeth are yellow, his hair is dirty and usually unbrushed, he will probably start smelling soon (he has a bag full of everything I could think of that he might need - electric razor, electric toothbrush, vitamins, face cleanser, shower gel, flannel, sponge comb, brush etc). And we always keep communication open. We are there for him always. He rarely goes outside and I’m certain he is going to be deficient in vitamin D and other vitamins and nutrients as he doesn’t eat fruits or vegetables. He won’t let us weigh him either. “No” is his favourite word. When I talk with my partner (his dad) about it he says he has tried talking to him many times but isn’t going to worry about it now as it’s his choice. I get that, but try as I might, I just can’t stop worrying about it! we have one main job - to keep him healthy. I feel like we are failing and I just don’t know what to do. Please can anyone offer some advice that they have found to have worked? Thank you x

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 20:04

Ukholidaysaregreat · 28/10/2024 19:18

Hi OP. Yes! To me this is strongly saying ASD. You may want to research this. Within my family - nail cutting, tooth brushing, hair brushing, showering and water generally were all avoided. It was only when we got a diagnosis I realised all this sensory stuff goes together and is a feature of being ASD.
With my teenager I made teeth non negotiable. They must clean their teeth. You can buy less strong tasting tooth paste or blue toothpaste is usually a bit weaker than the white ones. I would take away screens/phones until the brushing happened. It can start off as 30sec or what ever your teen can cope with. Then give back the confiscated item. They need to rush their teeth or later they will have false ones. Good Luck with this. You sound like really caring parents.

Hi, thank you for your message.

I have just been looking up ASD. Lots to learn there. Thank you.

I did read that signs of ASD are usually visible from a very early age. And usually begin between 1-2 years old. Our son had no issues communicating with anyone when he was younger. It’s been since he was pre-teen and even now he is fine talking to people if/when he does see them. He’s calm, relaxed and polite. I’m not sure he has ASD.

OP posts:

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 20:01

AlertCat · 28/10/2024 19:21

I wonder if there was more to the bullying than you know. I imagine you will say he’ll just refuse to discuss it?

I think if he refuses every request, you have to start enforcing what you need. If he won’t show you his online presence, remove his access to the internet. If he won’t comply with basic hygiene or behaviour relevant to health, you might need to empty the house of anything he’d eat in place of vegetables. If there’s no neurodiversity I think he has to lose access to choice because he isn’t making good choices. So no choice of food- just what you make. No access to internet/devices. He can choose the colour of his toothbrush, or between broccoli and cabbage. That sort of thing.

It isn’t being cruel, we have to support children to make choices that benefit them, and you have said a number of things that make it seem that your boy is at real risk of harm from different directions.

The bullying went on over the course of 2 years. It wasn’t just our son being bullied either. We had what must of been in excess of 30 meetings with teachers over the 2 years. We spoke with our son constantly about it. He opened up to us about it. We believe he told us everything that went on. We took things higher on a number of occasions. We did everything we could. The school and the boys parents were not taking any appropriate action so we felt we had no choice but to remove him from the harm he was experiencing.

We have removed his access to the internet a number of times. Believe me - it made things a whole lot worse.

We only ever had healthy food and drinks in the house. He wouldn’t eat it. He started to lose weight.

Everything you have said, we have tried. We aren’t namby pamby parents. We are strict/firm when we need to be. Please understand, that your approach (which was also ours) doesn’t work for everyone.

OP posts:

Maria1979 · 28/10/2024 20:00

@LoveAlways1 Dear OP, I think you and DP are not capable to help him out without getting external help. You can start with GP who will weigh him and can talk to him about hygiene. Take him to the dentist who will explain the importance of brushing his teeth. Maybe the GP can make a referral for him to a psychologist because it sounds like he needs to talk to someone outside the family unit. It would be great for him to go to mainstream school now because even if he's advanced on an academic level with you, his social skills have clearly suffered. I wish you all the best in the future 💐

MsCactus · 28/10/2024 20:00

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:49

Thank you so much Bakingandcrying. I’m not currently baking but I am crying! 😆 it was lovely to receive your kind message. It really was. I was getting very upset with people’s replies. I was feeling judged. Probably my own fault for feeling that way but I couldn’t help it. It took a lot to reach out. And I was regretting it. People should really be careful with there words and how they use them.

Thank you, again xx

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If I was homeschooled I honestly wouldn't bother showering or washing either - you're just at home, what's the point?!

I'm neurotypical.

I don't think your son is autistic but I do think he needs to go back to school. The teen years are critical for socialising and developing adult social skills - they're formative to your whole personality.

If he's getting bullied I would change school to a nicer one, not homeschool. I recommend you get him enrolled in a college OP, and maybe some drama/public speaking courses to build up his social confidence

Bakingandcrying · 28/10/2024 19:54

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:49

Thank you so much Bakingandcrying. I’m not currently baking but I am crying! 😆 it was lovely to receive your kind message. It really was. I was getting very upset with people’s replies. I was feeling judged. Probably my own fault for feeling that way but I couldn’t help it. It took a lot to reach out. And I was regretting it. People should really be careful with there words and how they use them.

Thank you, again xx

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It never fails to amaze me how quickly some people want to stick the knife in, its worth remembering that it’s not how people that are happy with their lives behave.

Its good to see there’s lots of practical replies, focus on them and genuinely ignore the finger wagging weirdos (they thrive on the attention)

best of luck to you and your son OP, look after yourself ❤️

WomanFromTheNorth · 28/10/2024 19:52

Everything you are saying about him is screaming autism to me. "High functioning" autism: school/ social problems, fussy about food, not wanting to wash, being bright etc. But, as you say, would there be any point getting him assessed? I don't know...

Combattingthemoaners · 28/10/2024 19:50

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:21

Thank you Swanbeauty. Finally, a kind reply.

I've learnt a lot about Autism. I am a very aware person and am constantly learning. Especially when it comes to my son. My nephew is Autistic and I have known many Autistic children in my life. However, he doesn’t show signs of Autism. I’m not an expert, and after your message I am thinking how I’d like to have him assessed. But HOW when I already know he will say no?

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In the kindest possible way he does appear to show signs of autism. His social isolation and reluctance to get involved in anything. Not washing could be sensory related - he may not like the sensation. Haircuts could be a similar reason, sensory related. You could try speak to your GP and see if there are any outreach teams who could come to your home and speak to him?

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:49

Bakingandcrying · 28/10/2024 19:37

Sorry to hear things are tough OP, it’s hard when they reach an age where you can’t force them to do basic things. As ever with MN there will unfortunately be unhelpful and judgey replies, I’m sure these comments come from perfect parents with perfect children!

He sounds a lot like my younger brother (now 22) he left for homeschooling as the same age as your son (he was desperately unhappy at school), and also went through a similar phase of poor hygiene. To this day he’s very selective about socialising and doesn’t live like a typical 22 year old lad. He gets a lot from his online friends, so please don’t worry about that with your son. He’s interacting, it may not be in the traditional sense but he’s got friends that he’s engaging with which is good.

I just think some people aren’t made for the typical way of life, school/job/nightlife/uni and that’s fine as long as they’re happy. Unfortunately I don’t have any practical advice about the hygiene, hopefully it’ll click for him one day and he’ll look after himself.

something that has really helped my brother is having a dog, would your son be interested in own a pet of some kind? It can really help in terms of their sense of purpose

As I say I don’t have a huge amount of advice, I just wanted to offer some reassurance at a clearly worrying time

Thank you so much Bakingandcrying. I’m not currently baking but I am crying! 😆 it was lovely to receive your kind message. It really was. I was getting very upset with people’s replies. I was feeling judged. Probably my own fault for feeling that way but I couldn’t help it. It took a lot to reach out. And I was regretting it. People should really be careful with there words and how they use them.

Thank you, again xx

OP posts:

onlytherain · 28/10/2024 19:46

If you post on the "SN teens and young adults" or "adoption" (he is not adopted but adoptive parents deal with a huge range of behaviours and tend to be very well informed and helpful) boards, you will most likely get helpful responses.

Your son is behaving in an atypical way. That is most likely because he cannot behave like his peers, not because he doesn't want to. Therefore consequences don't work. Like others have said, he might be neurodiverse. He seems to have sensory processing problems and possibly social challenges. Autism affects people in many different ways, so I would try to get him assessed. Have you found any ways to convince or motivate him to do anything you want him to do?

SilverChampagne · 28/10/2024 19:42

Homeschooling has gone well
Well, it clearly hasn’t, op!

It’s shocking that you say that so casually in the light of everything you’ve said about what a state your son is in.
It needs rethinking, fast.

CrazyGoatLady · 28/10/2024 19:42

It sounds very tough and you sound very stuck with it.

I'm a former CAMHS ed psych and family therapist. I would encourage reaching out for professional support. Even if your son doesn't want to engage, there can be value in you engaging as parents with family therapy, because the adults must change for the child to change.

I'm wondering if he has got into hikkikomori culture online. Although this was originally a Japanese cultural phenomenon, we were seeing more and more Western young people (some ND, some not) adopting this lifestyle, particularly following lockdown. Bullying and social rejection can be a common trigger for social withdrawal. There is a strong overlap with autism because autistic kids are often bullied and ostracised for being different and may be neurobiologically more vulnerable to social anxiety and health anxiety, which can develop into agoraphobia. But it is not always autistic young men who get into this. There's also a correlation with young men who have developed gaming addictions, and nothing apart from the dopamine hits from gaming will motivate them - all other tasks of living become somewhat meaningless and boring to someone addicted to an activity or substance.

The below may be of interest.

theconversation.com/hikikomori-understanding-the-people-who-choose-to-live-in-extreme-isolation-148482

1smallhamsterfoot · 28/10/2024 19:41

So he hasn't associated with anyone in real life apart from his parents for five years?!

Balloonhearts · 28/10/2024 19:41

I think I'd have a crackdown on screens. Autistic or not, teeth do have to be brushed and he needs to wash and show basic respect. Those are non negotiable. Everything else I'll compromise on.

He obviously wants to talk to his friends. Well that wouldn't be happening until he'd brushed his teeth, had a wash and at least attempted some school work. Sad and isolated? Too bad. He knows what he has to do to get his social life back. Time for some tough love.

Start small. Teeth are the most important thing here. You can't get them back once they've rotted. Take the phone, take the gaming setup. If you can't do this, take the power cable and chargers. The attitude lasts only as long as the battery.

He brushes his teeth and he gets them back. Ideally twice a day but I'd settle for once.

Don't give in to tantrums. Wait him out.

I'd aim for brushing teeth every day. Bath or shower at least every other day and one school task a day. Whether that be a worksheet or whatever its up to you. But ease in slowly. Start with teeth, progress to hygiene. He has to be capable of functioning in society so basics first. Then tackle education.

Swanbeauty · 28/10/2024 19:41

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at OP's request.

Stresshead84x · 28/10/2024 19:40

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:21

Thank you Swanbeauty. Finally, a kind reply.

I've learnt a lot about Autism. I am a very aware person and am constantly learning. Especially when it comes to my son. My nephew is Autistic and I have known many Autistic children in my life. However, he doesn’t show signs of Autism. I’m not an expert, and after your message I am thinking how I’d like to have him assessed. But HOW when I already know he will say no?

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What about the inattentive form of ADHD? I was very quiet as a teenager and struggled with hair washing/brushing etc. I still struggle a bit although I'm fine if I'm going somewhere but not with routine. It's to do with transitions I think and executive dysfuntion.

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:38

GoodGriefGordon · 28/10/2024 19:07

"Teeth now"
"Shower now"
"Getaway brush through it or shave it off"

All seem like great phrases for you to use

But in all seriousness because he is homeschooled there is less chance to build these into the days structure. So can't he have a shower before dinner? Teeth brush when getting up and before going to bed.

You don't have to be nasty just clear.

We have tried that. Many many many times. It doesn’t work.

OP posts:

Trinity69 · 28/10/2024 19:38

sosaad · 28/10/2024 19:29

Look up PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance). It is not recognised by all LAs, but I have known a number of young people who seem to be somewhat like your son with respect to behaviours and are demand-avoidant.

PDA Society – Pathological Demand Avoidance

I was going to mention this. My son is diagnosed ASD with a PDA profile. He is far from typically autistic. The presentation with PDA is completely different. My son has hair down to almost his bum, very rarely brushes his teeth but requires me to body double him when he does and will shower once a week, on a Sunday. If he doesn’t do it one Sunday, he won’t even try again until the following Sunday. He gives good eye contact, he’s very eloquent and has a broad vocabulary and is generally quite social in the right situation. It’s worth a read up.

Bakingandcrying · 28/10/2024 19:37

Sorry to hear things are tough OP, it’s hard when they reach an age where you can’t force them to do basic things. As ever with MN there will unfortunately be unhelpful and judgey replies, I’m sure these comments come from perfect parents with perfect children!

He sounds a lot like my younger brother (now 22) he left for homeschooling as the same age as your son (he was desperately unhappy at school), and also went through a similar phase of poor hygiene. To this day he’s very selective about socialising and doesn’t live like a typical 22 year old lad. He gets a lot from his online friends, so please don’t worry about that with your son. He’s interacting, it may not be in the traditional sense but he’s got friends that he’s engaging with which is good.

I just think some people aren’t made for the typical way of life, school/job/nightlife/uni and that’s fine as long as they’re happy. Unfortunately I don’t have any practical advice about the hygiene, hopefully it’ll click for him one day and he’ll look after himself.

something that has really helped my brother is having a dog, would your son be interested in own a pet of some kind? It can really help in terms of their sense of purpose

As I say I don’t have a huge amount of advice, I just wanted to offer some reassurance at a clearly worrying time

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:36

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:35

Thank you for your empathy, it is appreciated.

He is actually really in tune with his emotions and communicates well with us (which I know isn’t enough, but he is capable and able to express himself well). He is also brilliant on the phone! he does choose to talk in an American accent on the phone though. Not sure why but I don’t think that’s a problem…?

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Hypermedi - I write like a bot?! thank you for your kindness. Much appreciated 🙄

OP posts:

Original poster

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thank you for your empathy, it is appreciated.

He is actually really in tune with his emotions and communicates well with us (which I know isn’t enough, but he is capable and able to express himself well). He is also brilliant on the phone! he does choose to talk in an American accent on the phone though. Not sure why but I don’t think that’s a problem…?

OP posts:

Faz469 · 28/10/2024 19:29

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Maybe reach out to social services. They can help you get him into counselling and get to the bottom of this behaviour.

Just remember all you can do is your best. It sounds like you've tried everything you can think of. Is there another school/college near by that you could enroll him in? It may help bring him out of his shell.

sosaad · 28/10/2024 19:29

Look up PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance). It is not recognised by all LAs, but I have known a number of young people who seem to be somewhat like your son with respect to behaviours and are demand-avoidant.

PDA Society – Pathological Demand Avoidance

PDA in Our Words PDA in Our Words has been written in partnership with four PDAers, Riko, Leila, Hannah and Jennifer, in response to the findings of our 2023 survey. Full report

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/

southpawsofthenorth · 28/10/2024 19:28

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:18

Ok. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but I feel I’m having to repeat myself here. A lot. I thought by reaching out I’d receive kind caring support, instead I feel like I’m being judged and a bit attacked actually. Which is a shame because as I said in my original post, I’ve never reached out before. I guess I was right not to. Thanks. I think.

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AIBU is full of people who will make judgey and hostile comments (because it’s about judgement I suppose)

Might not be the right place for what for what you’re looking for. Are there other boards you could try? The parenting board has a teenager section by the looks of things.

AlertCat · 28/10/2024 19:23

LoveAlways1 · 28/10/2024 19:18

Ok. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, but I feel I’m having to repeat myself here. A lot. I thought by reaching out I’d receive kind caring support, instead I feel like I’m being judged and a bit attacked actually. Which is a shame because as I said in my original post, I’ve never reached out before. I guess I was right not to. Thanks. I think.

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I think a number of replies have cross-posted, so sorry that you feel you’re repeating yourself. Also I don’t think anyone is attacking you but you’re concerned (rightly) and when people suggest things you just say that your son will refuse. So it’s difficult to think of how to help you.

Beastiesandthebeauty · 28/10/2024 19:23

I have been tempted many times to homeschool my asd teen, she's like this also. HOWEVER you know your son better then any of us so if you think he is not autistic there has to be something going on with him as by nature if nt at that age he should be wanting to mix. What are his passions ?