To think it’s obvious why the birth rate is falling

The main reason I decided not to have kids, was seeing female friends and relatives consistently taking the hit to their careers and finances. In some cases leaving them trapped in relationships where they weren't happy but felt they had to stay. Some exceptions, but not many.

Plus the dire state of maternity care which has only got worse. A good friend is about to have another round of surgery to try and resolve the birth injuries she was left with, after her youngest (now age 5) was born. Another had such a traumatic delivery with her first, that she's flatly refused to have any more.

Let's not forget the shitty societal expectations that you're not contributing if you are a SAHM, but you're a bad mum if you go to work and put your child into nursery. Women are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Not missing the obvious that by not having kids, I'm a selfish child-hating harpy.

Governments need to look at the inherent problems that are causing this, because although money is definitely a factor, it's not the only reason. South Korea being an excellent example of this.

I read Paul Ehrlich’s work as a teenager, warning about the problems with overpopulation, and opted out.

I think that’s pretty normal for 21 though - I expect a lot of them will have changed their minds by the time they’re 31.

I think there’s something in that, maybe it’s not absolute hardship more the gap between aspiration and what we are told is normal, and what we can afford. After all, birth rates tend to be highest in poor countries. I know it’s extreme but look at Gaza, the birthdate there is extremely high despite dire conditions. It is expected there and large families are seen as a good thing.

There’s so many factors!

Takes longer to afford a house, so you’re older when you start

Probably live in a small house so may not have space.

Childcare ludicrously expensive

Unaffordable for one parent to stop work

The % of women not having any at all means those having them would all need to be having bigger families

That may be choice or not

Women want their financial independence and pensions

Women still seem to be expected to take on domestic responsibilities - but also be an equal earner

etc etx

I don’t doubt that that’s part of it but from my group of friends reasons for not having children are: just didn’t want them; disabilities made it hard to find a partner; very focused on career and didn’t want to do take attention away from it; relationship break up in 30s and didn’t meet new partner until into their 40s; very traumatic miscarriage and didn’t want to risk going through it again; infertility; wanted to keep travelling and meeting new people.

Now these people are mainly well off and all have professional careers so not necessarily representative but it’s not just money.

I see your point and it would be interesting to see the data split by those who work for a living and those who rely on state support. I suspect the biggest drop in birth rate will be among working people who simply couldn’t afford childcare etc.

I think a lot of it is this. When I was pregnant with DD - everyone told me it would be awful. I was shocked by it actually being a pleasant experience.

Lots of people are listening when others say it's awful - and just saying "nah, no thanks" it's almost fashionable to complain about your kids atm.

People seem baffled when I say I love looking after my DD

I actually think it’s more complex than cost of living. I think people are more selfish (not necessarily in a bad way, perhaps self sufficient is a better choice of words) and our society doesn’t actually really like or value children as much anymore. You only have to read the million threads about people moaning about children in restaurants / children in public in general etc. People have lost patience with other people and specifically children. My dd is 21 and doesn’t want children at all. She wants to live completely independently - which she is now doing - and spend time with friends, work, travel etc. Not remotely interested in marriage or relationships or children. Most of her friends are the same.

We're staying as a 3 rather than having a second baby partly because of how expensive everything is. We can afford it, but just in principle I can't imagine paying double child fees for all the stuff we want to do. Even now, we often end up just one parent taking DS to fun places and feeling sad the other misses out, because the cost of 2 adults alongside the child is insane.

(Obviously we also just weren't that dedicated to having a second, that we're willing to make this choice)

Definitely the cost for us. I don't earn far off and my husband earns a six figure salary but we live in a city and genuinely don't think we can comfortably afford another.

Also we are mid thirties now and feel done. I personally don't want another late thirties if I can avoid it. We prioritised our careers (in part for more money) in our twenties so we started too late for a third perhaps. No doubt many will be prioritising careers until they can simply afford one child let alone a second or third.

Expectations have changed.

I never went to see Santa when I was a kid. It didn't exist.

I had one birthday party, it was round at my house, we did the pass the parcel and a few other games, then it was sandwiches and time to go home.

I went on holiday twice in my childhood until I was 18.

We wore the same clothes over and over and I had all my brother's handme-downs.

So yes, it is possible to lead a much simpler life but we all got used to having a lot more 'treats', entertainment etc. And now everyone feels like you're missing out if you're not leading the life of an influencer.

But overall OP I think yes you're right, just every day life is very expensive now.

I agree that cost plays a factor, cost of living as much as anything specifically childcare related. I’m on maternity leave currently and now onto the SMP only portion and we are fortunate that my husband is a high-er earner (probably not by MN standards) so we can cover all bills and savings without really having to make any changes. When you consider the average salary in the UK is around £36k, if the father earns that there’s a good chance that that salary doesn’t cover all of mortgage/household bills/food etc, it makes maternity leave unaffordable unless you build up large savings beforehand.

I do think people waiting until later in life to try for babies due to prioritising career progression and getting on the property ladder plays a part though. I’m in my 20’s and just had my first baby but there were multiple other female colleagues of mine trying to conceive their first baby when I was pregnant all between 37 and 40 who were struggling and still have yet to conceive sadly so are now waiting on NHS treatment or trying to find a way to afford private.

Yes but population growth in recent years has also been caused by increased life expectancy - birth rates have been falling but compensated for by people sticking around longer. Life expectancy is likely topping out but even if it isn’t, productive life seems to have so the dependency ratio will become v problematic. The population will be old and if BR remains below 2 then it will stay that way as each reproducing cohort will be smaller than the last.

Economic pressures have something to do with it, but also a certain number of people, male and female, have looked at the people they know who are raising children and thought 'that looks like a really crap lifestyle, I'm not doing that' and don't.

I was listening to the BBC item this evening and they cited Hungary where 5% of their national spending was going on boosting the birth rate. That compares to 3% on defence. They were offering massive financial incentives for having more DC. Their birth rates were still only just above our own.

So of course finances matter but they aren’t the only factor and possibly not the most important one.

Another programme I heard focused on South Korea where the birth rate is frighteningly low. They said that misogyny was massive and the women were fighting back by simply refusing to have DC and take on all the load.

Oh they do! I certainly wouldn't but plenty do

Ok society will collapse then, people living ever longer and an ever diminishing supply of young people expected to support them, this is not going to go well

In the past most women expected that was their role in life. Kids were the priority and part time menial work fitted round them. They watched their own Mothers bring up 6, 8, 10 etc children. Four kids to a bedroom, no holidays except Blackpool every few years.

Most people now are from smaller families and careers are the important thing with maybe one or 2 kids squeezed in that are brought up by via child care/Granny. The desire to have a posh home, bedrooms for all, holidays abroad, activities every weekend, 2 cars,massive mortgage etc has tipped the balance financially and kids upbringings are more quality than quantity.

I would have loved more kids but not enough time or money to give them everything I wanted to.

Anti ageing drugs? Nonsense. Nobody wants to be 120.

It’s not going to collapse. The population growth rate has been slowly declining since1960 and is projected to reach zero growth by 2050. A century to get to zero growth and then a slow decline is more than slow enough for us to adjust as we go.

I agree with last few posts, I'm happy to see it's dropping.

The population increase has been high as pp laid out

Tech will change things a lot, so in some ways we're at the time where we should drop now

Agree with points above. Add to that the decline in fertility rates, the pill works twice! once as expected and again when all that oestrogen ends up in the environment. Sad but true

Totally agree with this too, the planet is suffocating and drowning in humanity

I think it's many things... i find myself wondering how much of a role feminism has played in it...

In the old days when women didn't work, houses/rents could only cost as much as one salary could support but now many households have dual incomes which has helped drive up house prices as people can afford more.

Then you add in our expectation of equality and we look around us and realise many women work AND still do the majority of child rearing, house work, house admin etc. And we fuck our careers by having kids... the pay gap is not improving and no ones even talking about the pension gap.

If the men in charge want us to have more children they are really going to have to step it up in terms of making it worth our while. Maternity benefits, career protection, education programs for boys/young men, tax benefits, funded childcare. They need to stop men beating and murdering us as well. The falling birth rate is a global issue in developed countries and the UK is no where near the worst impacted.

Oh and it pisses me off that almost all reporting on the issue is written along the lines of "women putting off kids till later life" like it's somehow our fault. Most women i know would have had more kids if it wasn't for the money/time/lack of family support/health concerns.