Can I tell this kid off? Feel awkward!

I don't see that you or DD can do/say to get him to stop while the lift arrangement continues.

Any 'Jenny won't be your friend' type response sounds like it will be met with 'good' because it sounds like he doesn't want her there at all.

You might even be heading towards her lashing out to 'she's not our family' comments with 'I'm glad, because you're horrible' and then she gets told off by his DM.

Perhaps it would be effective if his DM did some big consequences after the journey - no scouts tonight, no going to x's party tomorrow, if you can't be nice to other people. But I don't think there's anything you can do, you don't have the authority to do anything meaningful.

His DM might also be feeling guilty about him having to share her company with your DD because of the arrangement between you, rather than because she's his friend, and be not telling him off as robustly as you might want as a result.

Do you think he's unhappy being 'stuck' with your DD for daily school runs? Not getting his mum to himself sometimes? Being tied in to picking her up/dropping her off rather than doing what he wants sometimes?

Exactly. She’s actually being taught the exact oppposite of this.

I get that you need her help with the school run but it doesn't sound good for your DD to be exposed to his mean behaviour. I'd be worried about what this is teaching her and trying to make other arrangements.

You need to make alternative arrangements for your DD after school transport. This boy is being nasty to her and you need to keep her away from him.

I very effectively managed this by using gentle words but a fucking stern face and my friend couldn’t quite see my expression. That stopped him kicking and hitting my son. Never did it again.

And keep reminding her that she doesn’t have to tolerate rude and unkind behaviour from anyone

Except that she does have to tolerate it, because she's being made to get in a car with him

Even if your daughter starts standing up for herself (which you should help her learn to do anyway, it's a life skill), it's still a hugely uncomfortable situation for her. And is it likely to actually make him stop, given that he doesn't stop when his mum tells him to?

YABU to carry on with this arrangement. A constant drip of insults is incredibly damaging to a person's self esteem, especially a child. If this was happening in school, you'd expect them to be separated, wouldn't you? Even if it was inconvenient for the teacher?

I am with PPs in that I can't see why you can't change this at all, if you are literally arriving home as they are - why can't you pick up your other child a bit earlier and then get DD, or get DD first and have your younger child wait an extra 5 minutes? Nurseries don't close as early as schools do they?

You’re focusing on the wrong solution. The issue is continuing with an arrangement that is unpleasant for your dd. Sounds like he resents having her around for whatever reason and is showing that through his unkind behaviour. He’s not responding to his mum telling him off so I’m not he will change just because you do.

I think it’s an unfair arrangement on everyone at this point including the mum that’s aware of it but can’t for whatever reason get him to stop. I would not tolerate this sort of behaviour from my child but I’d also be pretty pissed and stressed at having to manage it everyday because I’m doing someone a childcare favour. My mum used to look after a neighbours child after school and I always remember hating having her in my space!

Long term lift arrangements like this should be mutually beneficial for all and this isn’t.

It depends. How does your daughter feel? Presumably the arrangement means that there might be times he’s rude to her when it’s just his mum who is there? I would check this out with your daughter and ask her what his mum does to deal with his behaviour when you aren’t there. If I thought this was going unchecked that would make me reconsider my childcare arrangements but if I was confident his mother was dealing with it and my child overall was happy with the arrangement I’d leave as is for now but keep it under review! It is difficult to rely on another parent for childcare as it can force children into ‘friendships’ that might otherwise have run their course under different circumstances.

If they don’t have play dates anymore and she tells him off if he does it in front of her I don’t see the issue? When are she and him alone with just you? I wouldn’t tell him off if his mum is there, unless of course she doesn’t do anything about it. In that situation I would maybe look at her to indicate that I’ve noticed and expect her to deal with it and failing that yes I would tell him off.
It’s also important to equip your daughter to stand up to him for those situations where an adult isn’t around or readily available to deal with it, which will be more and more as they grow up. Help her to practice making assertive statements like ‘please don’t talk to me that’, ‘that’s mean, I don’t want to play with you anymore’ and ‘if you are going to keep being unkind then I don’t want to be your friend’. And keep reminding her that she doesn’t have to tolerate rude and unkind behaviour from anyone and should spend time with lots of other friends. Obviously you can support this with play dates/activities with other children.

Maybe the arrangement no longer works for them. They can't go places because they have to take DD home.
The fact that the boy says these things again and again means he hasn't been getting a warning from his mum.
You can't say anything, but you should make other arrangement to bring this school drop offs to an end.

I think it is very unkind to force your daughter into this boy's company on these lifts home. Whether you think you are teaching her how to stand up for herself or not, really, on one level, you are teaching her that she has to put up with it as you won't make a better plan. You really should restructure your pick ups so that you can do them both.

If you’re literally reaching your own home as she pulls up after a 5 minute drive, it sounds like there’s plenty of room to manoeuvre?
You’re literally talking about a c5 minute overlap.
Why not pick up your toddler 5 minutes earlier and drive to school yourself?

This thread is making me remember a kid who I used to share lifts with. Hannah. Once she banned me from using the headrests in the car so I spent the journey trying to hold my neck forwards and not touching them. Wish someone had given me the words to tell her to wind her neck in. Mind you I also never told anyone about it so they didn't have much opportunity to help!

If possible, I'd try to find another arrangement.
If it's happening on the way home when you're not there, then there isn't much you can do - you could say something to him afterwards but as the mum is doing you a favour and you're reliant on her that could be awkward. Can you pick up your toddler a little later or can someone else help out? I think it sounds like you need to organise something independent of favours like this.

How does your DD feel about it?

What is he saying exactly and how does dd feel about it?

Bingo...

Sticking up for herself can mean telling him to stop it but also following it up by telling his parent that she's uncomfortable for x reasons and needs adult assistance.

What does your DD think? Is she ok to carry on being with him on the school runs? Can you work out some stock responses for her if he is being mean? Does the other mum say anything to you privately, like she’s sorry for his behaviour and is doing her best to control him or find out why he’s doing it?

It does sound like a good set up and if the other mum is ok with it I’d be reluctant to have to find alternatives.

Yes you can but it's how and what you say....so I wouldn't raise my voice, be stern or say single commands like stop that now. But I might say in a calm kind voice, please don't speak like that in this house or please don't be unkind. Or a reminder of manners is fine, can you use please and thank yous whilst you're here.

This person sounds like a good friend to you, I'd be trusting her judgement on how to parent her child.

It could just be a phase he's going through, I wouldn't take it to heart. Maybe he's struggling to socialise or to behave appropriately

Doesn't sound like hes a bully or he's being unkind to your child, just coming across a bit rude x