SEN betweeners

If the school is named in section I and the LA is refusing to fund the fees or SEP, the parents should send a pre-action letter then look at JR if necessary.

There are secondaries who manage to make a 2 form entry work. For example, the XP chain. Whether you like that type of school or not is, of course, another matter.

I completely agree op, I think this is one of the reasons for the sudden increase in children being homeschooled/home educated too, which can be a great experience for some, not so great for others, and really if the children who needed early intervention and support from the get go, could probably manage to a better degree than currently. Unfortunately it just seems like the funding isn't there, but like you say, paying for multiple 121 staff member for a child who isn't coping in a mainstream environment could, could be money better spent for small groups of children to thrive in a more accommodating establishment. There's a "school" near us for children who can't cope with mainstream, and they seem to do remarkably well considering, working in small groups without all the pressure, red tape, and expectations that go with mainstream schooling. However this is government funded and spaces are extremely limited and hard to obtain. By the time the children are allowed to attend, they have usually been removed from multiple schools, have suffered alot of trauma around education, and are in turn, damaged, and unlikely to achieve what they could have had early intervention and placement outside of mainstream been allowed.

In my county they have just started removing funding for children who are at independent special secondary schools. It's awful, for parents who have usually had to go to tribunal and have a child settled.

On the other hand these placements cost 50-100 thousand a year. Really the solution is for the LEA to have built a school themselves!

This is exactly why I ended up home educating one of my DC. ASD, very well behaved and ok academically so considered not appropriate for a special school, but could not cope at all with large noisy environments. They made it through primary school, barely, but could not cope with a mainsteam high school at all even with support. We had to pull them out to home educate after one term of mainstream high school, their mental health was really suffering. No school near us had capacity in an attached autism unit either, they were massively over subscribed.

My DC thrived being home educated. Has managed to gain some GCSE's and is now happily settled at college.

Most of the families we met through the home ed network were in the same situation. I know some people home educate through choice, but I didn't, nor did at least 60% of the families we met, they were all forced into it by lack of appropriate schools for neurodiverse children.

I've seen this with loads of people. My son has "severe" autism and we still had to go to panel to get specialist place at autism school, I have no clue what you do when you're child isn't coping but they are fully verbal etc. You're right there is just zero provision for this.

Exactly. My child has cost this country a fortune as they wouldn't support her when little. Even right down to the police who have had to visit when she ran off and social services when she was suicidal.

Oh yes, I do believe it was done with good intentions. But I think it was the wrong decision.

I didn't know about this. I feel like there was such a stigma against special schools that nobody was worried about such a decision, whereas now, there's such a need for them 🥺

They logistically have to be bigger than primary schools, however my parents secondary schools in the 70s only had around 400-500 pupils. Think mine had about 1000. My kids' school has 1700 + and keeps being asked to add extra classes. It's excessive isn't it!

Not sure if this has been said but in my part of London we have what's called an ARP (Additional Resource Provision).

It's a class, set in a mainstream school, just for kids with autism. Class size is small, with many support staff.

Kids get to interact with the kids in the mainstream classes if they want/if it will help.

I think this is what youre referring to. Could you see whether theres something like that near you?

I'd say that there are several schools with an arp in the area. And then a couple of established special needs schools for kids with a range of severe needs (which are FANTASTIC)

My dd wasn't severe enough to attend one of the special needs schools but the ARP was perfect.

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Secondary schools have to be bigger or teachers would have to move around between schools which would be a timetabling nightmare. In many subjects, children only have 1 or 2 lessons a week. You couldn't fill a timetable in those subjects in a 1 or 2 form entry school, even if the department only had 1 teacher in it. The huge 1500+ pupil ones do seem uneccesary though, I agree. I think 600- 1000 pupil range is workable and realistic.

YaNBU. Blame the 1981 Inclusion Act. There used to be loads of special schools for differing levels of need. The 'right' to mainstream education led to the closure of so many schools for those children with less extreme needs. But it didn't consider what was best for the children.

The answer is to build more schools and make them all smaller and quieter with smaller class sizes and a lower teacher/TA/pupil ratio as it would benefit everyone. Treat pupils as individuals and get to know them all well. No ridiculous uniform rules and detentions for forgetting your ruler. The whole of society would benefit. DD2 was fine with primary school - 2 classes per year group, teacher plus 1 TA per class of 25/26. Not fine and never got on with secondary school of 1,200 pupils. I don't know why it is that state secondary schools have to be massive impersonal silos and are just something to be endured rather than actually providing a supportive, nurturing environment. Rather than a cross between the Hunger Games, Hogwarts under Professor Umbridge and Lord of the Flies, it's ridiculous.

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, have you considered EOTAS/EOTIS via an EHCP?

Some who find a large state mainstream overwhelming find a smaller, nurturing independent mainstream suitable. This can be funded via an EHCP if it is required.

Some find attending an AP 1, 2 or 3 days a week enables them to cope in mainstream school the rest of the week.

It’s also why many travel long distances to special schools rather than only looking locally.

Yeah school said the same to me. So I applied by myself and we got her ehcp no problems. Sendias were a great source of support and information through the process. Give it a go you've nothing to lose.

Totally agree. When I started teaching we could offer applied science GCSE, not have all kids take English Literature, more vocational courses. We could do social skills work and support more students with SEN through. As you say, changes in curriculum mean this is much much harder.

Mine is now a young adult, but he similarly was unsuited to mainstream but too able for special school. He was lucky enough to go to a mainstream secondary with an attached autism unit, and fairly free flow between the two so that he could spend as much or as little time as needed in the supported setting.

It was a new venture when he started, and became somewhat a victim of its own success by the time he left. Seven autistic boys in one quiet room was ok. Twenty-four autistic boys (and one girl) in one room was less so.

I asked at the initial meeting how many children they felt would benefit from the unit. Around 250, they said. But we can only take a few. The hope was that other local schools would see the outcome and do the same. (They didn't.)

This is us. There is an amazing secondary school for autistic boys near us with small classes, support with semh etc but dcs need an ehcp to get in and school say there’s not enough evidence to apply.

Agree with pps that the National Curriculum 2014 is not fit for purpose and everyone suffers as a result. Even those who can access it (the upper end of middle ability and generally in primary the older children in the year, good luck if you're summer born and not naturally brighter than average) are impacted by those who, through no fault of their own, can't.

As well as children with autism and ADHD, inclusion in mainstream often fails those with Cognition and Learning needs. If you can't read and write 3 and 4 letter words by KS2, usually your needs realistically can't be best met in mainstream and yet we expect these children to somehow catch up when the rest of the class are learning about the past continuous tense or the passive voice.

We were in a similar position but I managed to get my dd into specialist provision school. Very small school for children with a diagnosis of ASD and with social and emotional needs.

I looked at so many school for my dd. Every single one was more aimed at children with behavioural problems. My dd just needed a smaller class size and some emotional support. Her mental health was very bad as she had hit burnout in mainstream and then tried to take her life.

So anyway we got the placement but the draw backs are that they don't study a huge range of subjects. Just the basics really. They don't push pupils to do well academically but rather focus on their social skills and mental health. Shes in her final year and will leave with the five GCSE's she will need to go to college (if she can cope, I'm ready for the next challenge) but didn't get to study the GCSEs that she could of in mainstream.

The schools been amazing for her. But the government decided that they were going to close the school. There was lots of protests, meetings etc and they finally decided to keep the school open but it had to increase in size to be sustainable. So this year it's upped its intake for a third. And is expected to double that next year. Completely taking away the reason it was a great ASD provision, the small class sizes, the small not busy calm environment they need.

I understand that money doesn't grow on trees but without this school I know my dd wouldn't be in the position she's in now. And the same goes for her friends there.

The local authority pushed my dd to try mainstream secondary and it nearly ended up taking her life. Because it's cheaper.

But I know there's not a bottom less put available for sen education but I think the whole thing needs a total overhaul.

OP YANBU, I totally agree.

My DS is in year 9, recently diagnosed as AuADHD. Luckily he copes most days, but it's heartbreaking to hear of so many who don't.
I barely coped at school 30 years ago (I'm likely ND too). It makes me so sad and angry that we're treating our young people like this and basically creating a strict, one size fits all exam factory approach.

I really hope this curriculum review helps, though like a PP said, too late for some of our kids.

We struggled to find a school for DS that was suitable for ND kids (low demand, small classes) but not catering predominantly for children with LD’s. It’s a common problem with autistic/ADHD kids who are not lagging behind their peers, except perhaps in social and communication areas. These schools do exist, it’s just that LA’s don’t want to fund the places!

Getting DS in to the school nearly broke me, but the LA was forced to pay. No judgment on parents who can’t or won’t take them on, ofc.

You are not being unreasonable OP. My children fell into this category though their mainstream school made no attempt to make adjustments for them. Fortunately we found a school which specialised in autism/moderate learning difficulties and my son did better there. For my daughter, there was no alternative and I had to home educate her as she was too unwell for secondary school due to her experiences at primary. It took years for my dtr to recover but she is now doing well at college though we are still adjusting to the impact of those days. The worst thing is seeing her miss out on opportunities that other young people take for granted:-(

It isn't just school, it can be social activities too.

My DD struggles with kids her own age, but isn't 'bad enough' (for want of a better term) for the various SEN schemes.