SEN betweeners

I'm all for what you're proposing but the 'savings' might not be realised until well into adulthood, if ever.

For example, a full time 1:1 in a mainstream school costs around £17,000. A special school near me catering only for autistic pupils who are of around average academic ability or above (so pretty much what you're describing) costs over £60,000 and they have no 1:1s, but do have very small class sizes.

For some children like you describe, EHCPs can fund mainstream private school provision.

School funding varies drastically. A rural school with a high number of low income families could get scarcity funding and an extra £1200 per pupil premium children (about 20% more per child). That might allow for 3 classes of 20 rather than 2 classes of 30. Schools with lots of young inexperienced teachers also have a considerably lower staffing bill than a school that the staff like, and therefore don't move on from, where all teachers are at the top of the pay scale. Even from county to county there are big differences in the funding per pupil. Neighbouring counties can vary by nearly 25%. Finally if a couple of children join with high level needs and no funding in place, general TAs will quickly be reallocated as 1:1s.

@Ionlytrymybest have you considered EOTAS? Although you may have to appeal.

Tbh I think it depends on areas to and what’s available but even when you have a high need child doesn’t mean they won’t full in-between. In our area we have a very high need school when it comes to those with behaviour issues / violent outbursts etc which also is residential.
we have a Sen school which is for learning disabilities etc that won’t take children with behaviour as a main concern.
we have a autism unit as a part of 2 main stream
Schools.

my DD has autism, language disorder, cerebral palsy, feeding tubes, IV lines for specific organ failures and apparently not suitable for any of the above and they are looking at mainstream secondary schools for her 🙈🙈🙈

It isn’t just about DC learning faster. It is about DC with SEN having their needs met, which is a legal right. It isn't comparable to compare DC with SEN needing smaller groups or individual teaching to have their needs met to those without SEN who have their needs met within a typical class setting but may learn faster in a smaller group. No-one gets provision in EHCPs just because the special educational provision is better or preferred. It is in F because it is legally reasonably required.

Yet some schools seem to manage just that. My daughters state primary school class of 20 has a teacher and 2 higher level TA's, so she is often taught in groups of 6-7 for phonics, maths reading etc. TA's allocated to children are on top of this. And yes, the progress they make is amazing, and my youngest had exceeded all expectations we had for her, entering as a child with lower level SEN and now top of her class.

Aibu to think that mainstream just isn't suitable for some children and that there needs to be a middle option of some sort? I don't think it's good for anyone when there are children struggling so badly in mainstream.

I think a lot of parents are quite unrealistic about how tailored education can be, and what can be provided at state expense.

All children, not just "sen betweeners" learn faster in smaller groups with a higher proportion of adult support. Its simply too expensive for the state to provide free education in groups of 5 & 6 etc children (or even less) to a single adult.

Good mainstream schools will be reducing noise - it doesn't help anyone. They will have muted displays with sound absorbing backing and movement breaks.

We have to ask ourselves why so many more children cannot cope with normal schooling and are so "anxious". What has happened to the human race?!

We are in this position. Our son currently copes but does not excel at mainstream primary (he could excel in the right setting). Currently trying to get an EHCP in place after waiting 4 years for his diagnosis so that we can have the pick of secondary schools for him. He wouldn't cope in the large 1400 entry secondary that we sent our older son to. The teachers are great there but it's just too big and noisy.

We are lucky that we live on the edge of a very rural area with a secondary which has a high intake from single entry tiny rural schools. This school has a lot of farming children and i think would suit our son well. It only has 350 pupils. This is around 20 mins drive from us but I would go part time to get him there and back (wouldn't manage the bus).

He refuses to talk about it at the moment as I think he'll struggle without his friends but overall it would be the right choice for him.

There are 'inbetween' options, they are called ARP's. Many schools have them for children who are within a mainstream range academically but need additional support with physical/sensory/SEMH/ASD needs. They integrate into their year group where suitable, with small group nurture when needed.

I worry about this for my children when they are older. I went to an average sized secondary school with 700/800 pupils up to Y13 in 1991. 1000 pupils was regarded as a large school.

In the city I live in there no sixth forms so the schools are only Y7-Y12. All the schools are over 1,000 pupils. One school in a nearby town is over 2,000 pupils. Almost all of the schools in my city have been monopolised by a very strict MAT. My autistic son is not able to give eye contact nor will he be able to respond quick enough to their commands (slow verbal processing) and he is clumsy and slow so would be frequently punished for not getting from class A to B in the allotted 2 minutes.

@Itsrainingatlast your post has confirmed my suspicions that school now suits so few pupils.

So many lives damaged, kids and parents alike.

I completely agree with you. I have DD16 who hasn't set foot in school for nearly 3 years, ASD and SPD keeping her away from noise and busy-ness, has 1:1 sessions plus online teaching to ensure she can get GCSEs - my DS is similar, being diagnosed for ADHD (poster boy!) and ASD. Neither could cope with a special school, I've been to one before and albeit more teacher : child support, it's too much of a sensory overload too
EOTAS I think is probably the only route for kids who arent supported by their school

I think it is pretty common to have smaller lower sets. I'm primary but had to observe a day in secondary whilst training. I felt dreadfully sorry for a couple of quiet girls in bottom set maths; they clearly weren't very confident in the subject but the chances of them learning much were pretty low given the disruptive behaviour of around 70% of the class, the vast majority of whom were boys.

It's a tricky question isn't it. I think you have to stream by what level they are working at, but ideally that would go along with all children having access to the support they need, and have the possibility to move between sets as appropriate.

My DS's school doesn't set at all until y10. It's been a nightmare for him in terms of behaviour as there are disruptive kids in all his classes. That's a huge source of stress for him to the point he is unable to go to some lessons.

The senco keeps saying it'll get easier when he's in y10 next year as those really disruptive kids won't be in his set.

One school we looked at varied class sizes for the different sets - so e.g. top set might be 30, middle sets 20, bottom set 15. The lower sets get more support. That sounded like a good idea for a start, not sure if that's common.

You don't need the school to apply for an ehcp you can apply yourself.

And my anxiety levels are quite a bit better too, not being threatened with fines and a criminal record for failing to get her into school.

Thanks @FumingTRex DD1 was picked up a few times at school for not getting the tripod grip properly - she got there in the end but quite late I think. I was never particularly bothered as her handwriting was neat and we were on NC levels then - she was generally two years ahead on the average expectations for her age. She got into a super-selective grammar and is now at the best university in the country for the subject she's studying. DD2 on the other hand, teachers never raised any concerns and she always seemed about average academically. I suspected ADHD and dyslexia but she enjoyed school and so it didn't seem worth following it up- we did pay for a tutor for Maths and English though which really helped. Just did not get on with secondary school at all so then pursued a private diagnosis and she is doing GCSEs at home with online school and tutors - expensive but hope it will just be enough to get her over this hurdle and into further education college. Her anxiety levels and mental health are so much better than even a year ago when she was still at the local school.

Excellent post by @rainfallpurevividcat and a good example of this is phonics. My DS was struggling at age 4 because he could not say or hear all the letter sounds. Because of this he also could not reliably read or write those sounds. But speech therapy told us he was within the normal range - because it is normal not to be able to distinguish or copy every sound at age 4.

So we are basically pathologising a large group of children by telling them they are “behind “ when their development is normal.

My DS went on to achieve greater depth in reading SATS and is an avid reader.

I don’t like the phrase “SENbetweeners” because i feel it minimises the needs of the children who are not being served. Having severe mental health needs for example is not a “mild” problem, and some of the kids falling through the gaps will end up suicidal, self harming or missing out entirely on education.

The reality is that all special schools have their own criteria and cater for different types of need, some may require children to be within the normal range of academic ability, others require them not to be aggressive, some are set up for severe physical disabilities or mental health needs. It isnt just a sliding scale of “severe SEN” to “mild SEN”.

Streaming doesn't help when you have a potential high achiever with ASD or other problems. DS was capable of excellent GCSEs and A levels once he was in the right environment.

Some schools have a asd class/unit on site but few and far between.

We had a asd school open near us for kids working at age related but struggling in mainstream but sadly it's become an overflow for the sen schools

Or UK schools could just stream by ability much more than they do? I grew up in a country which was much more willing to stream and I never quite get why the UK seems so resistant?