Conservatives and Labour - is there really any difference for middle class working families

@thepariscrimefiles Im not angry at Labour nor feel ‘betrayed’ by them.

Im annoyed by all of them. As per the initial OP.

None of them will do anything to change the above regardless of how absurd and limiting it is for growth.

If anything, what we will see is more and more people in the same boat as inflation drives wages higher and more people end up in that camp - alongside the growth in childcare support for everyone else.

I doubt Labour thought it was a winning line hence selling in ‘fully funded, fully costed’ and now it’s all pain and fiscal reality doom

It’s great you want to pay more though, which of the taxes that you pay do you want to go up?

But it was a Conservative government policy. You may be angry if the Labour government doesn't reverse or mitigate this in the budget, but it isn't something they implemented in the first place. A number of benefits brought in by Labour governments to be universal irrespective of income, e.g. child benefit were amended by Conservation governments since 2010. Therefore, I think your sense of betrayal is misplaced.

@Morph22010 a taper would be better than the cliff-edge I agree.

Even then though… it’s a cost of going to work, a business expense really. Not being given any tax relief on it at all seems very severe.

Particularly given most of those having the benefit removed will be living in very HCOL areas where childcare costs are insanely high too.

You’re comfortably looking at £4,000 a month for two inc. 15 free hours at 3 here now. That’s still cripplingly high.

And - if the second earner earns less than about £75k, you’re losing money each month by their working.

It’s a crap policy that’s made more crap by its lazy application.

I think the main issue it’s a cliff edge, so you can go a few pounds over becuase you miscalculate a benefit in kind and you lose all. It would be better if it were tapered

I can't see why people are finding this so hard to work out . !

The fucking grifting Tories have spent FOURTEEN YEARS, passing off private contracts to their mates for no or very little return whilst SYSTEMATICALLY dismantling public services. Which should be of no surprise to anyone who voted for them as it is a fundamental belief of conservative values.

Now God knows how many wingers are on here expecting everything to be fixed before the new government have even had a fucking budget .. yet somehow expect this to happen by then production of a magic money tree.

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but if you want functional hospitals, social housing, a long term care plan . Then it needs to be paid for through tax.

I do want those things and am happy to pay higher tax to have them.

@thepariscrimefiles yes, and the value of that childcare is massive - and growing, given the extra free hours from 9 months, which will rise to 30 hours from 9 months in 2025.

I need to earn tens of thousands of pounds extra a year just to cover that loss.

It’s ridiculous. And encouraging people to go part time to try and stay under it because the loss is so massive - which is completely stupid.

Have hospital waiting lists gone down yet? Boat arrivals have gone up I see and the government are opening more asylum hotels. Rachel Reeves could save a quick £5/£6 billion on the overseas climate aid pledge due next year.

All children aged 3 and 4 are eligible for free childcare for 15 hours per week, 38 weeks per year irrespective of parental income.

If parental income exceeds £100,000, their children are not eligible for the 30 free hours scheme.

Therefore, you can access some childcare support (15 hours), just less than people earning less than £100,000 per year.

We are neither better no worse off. Tories pay me less and tax me less (nhs worker). Labour pay me more and tax me more.

I am hoping some of the labour promises will come to fruition, particularly the free school meals for all primary children and free breakfast clubs for all primary. I know many who are just over the cut off for free school meals and funded holiday playschemes and really struggle. We really need to address the earning potential of hard working people who are on low wages through having to find a job within school hours, which often affects women disproportionately as they are more likely to be a single parent. Work needs to pay, there needs to be a significant lifestyle benefit for working hard vs choosing not to work.

But communities need to help themselves rather than expecting the government to do everything. I'm lucky to live in a place where the residents take responsibility for nurturing children through free clubs, keeping it clean through litter picks, regular fundraising for commuinity amenities etc

But that is a one off scheme, over many years.... the cut in NI has to be covered every year and its index linked to wages.

However, at frst glance seems like a bit of waste, better to reduce emissions in the first place... via using less fosil fuels.

Doctors pay rise? its about 1.5 billion per year (net after extra tax & ni taken) a lot of money but how much was an on-going strike going to cost?

Not great if can't go back to work because your op is cancelled.

That’s really hard luck for you. Maybe one day you’ll have good luck and maybe have a disabled child p, have an accident or get really ill with a life limiting condition that the treatment costs the nhs thousands so you will be at least getting something back

It would be nice if I could access childcare support, given the astronomical cost of childcare.

It’s really radicalised me, being excluded from childcare support.

Feels like the most monumental ‘fuck you’, given the amount of tax I pay. And it excludes 2% of parents using formal childcare so the savings must be absolutely minuscule too.

I’ve had to consciously choose the most affordable nursery to enable me to fund it (full time), while those I know with local grandparents or able to work compressed hours use less hours, can claim the hours, opt for the better nursery etc. It’s a bit grating.

Yet you keep voting them in.

I would have cut the overseas climate aid pledge first (Hunt was going to cut it) and not given doctors a 22% pay rise. There's not universal praise for this scheme either;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/11/labour-carbon-capture-climate-breakdown

We are taxed so heavily - DP in higher tax bracket but we get nothing in return

Nothing? The NHS? Police? Armed forces? Fire brigade if you need it? Social Services? Roads and transport planning? Weekly rubbish and recycling collections? School places for your children? University education paid for upfront by Government loan? A society which is largely civilised with no need for gated communities with security to prevent armed home invasions?

Oh dear. Taxed so heavily and getting nothing in return. Your house is on fire. Are you going to put that out yourself or call the fire service? Burgled? Car stolen? Are you chasing these yourself? Are you living overwhelmed by rubbish you can't dispose of? Taking it to the tip yourself? Fallen ill suddenly, need an ambulance? Off you crawl to the er, hospital which isn't there because taxpayers refused to fund it. This is a small amount of services. I don't care how much tax you are paying, I guarantee it's not enough to fully fund the 'nothing' you receive in services without even noticing them.

@Hateam
So let me understand why you feel you don't benefit from society. Do you have street lighting? Do you have access to A and E, even if you had to wait 10 hours? Do you have access to transport of any kind. Roads? Clean water? Do you really pay for everything and get nothing in return? I don't want to live in a place where poverty is so endemic that I need to buy for extra security around my block of flats. This is a reality in some countries.

Those NI cuts & independent review pay rises (both unfunded by Hunt) have to be paid for.

or we don't give workers a pay rise and reverse the NI cuts...

Which is it?

cardibach
From a Starmer press release which unaccountably doesn’t seem to have featured in main news/analysis broadcasts yet

There was something in the Guardian yesterday;

Keir Starmer will promise to “embrace the harsh light of fiscal reality” on Monday as his chancellor prepares to unveil a budget that includes billions of pounds’ worth of tax rises and spending cuts.

There certainly was a difference between 1997/2010 and 2010/2024 as the country went to the dogs in the latter period and real wages have vastly diminished in spite of recent rises. In spite of the banking crisis we as a country were in a much better place in 2010. The difference I feel immediately with this government is that there are grown ups in charge who are actually interested in public service and running the country, even if I may not agree with everything they do.

I don't feel the country has been actually governed at all since 2019. The focus was on Brexit and the inner shenanigans of the Conservative leadership v backbenchers and members, and then Covid, then more pissing about, being corrupt and fucking up the economy. Under their watch my energy bills doubled in a year and mortgage costs went up so yes I think we all noticed a difference in our pockets in the last few years, sometimes a dramatic one in 24 hours after a disastrous budget. I have also noticed a vast and horrific difference in state education and the NHS, in the last 14 years and far moreso in the last five.

Really? That is bad. I hope Labour don't use that as a 'blueprint' for here as claimed

I feel for students impacted who could have benefited from triple science

What are you expecting to get in return for your high taxes that you aren't getting now?

I'm politically homeless atm.

Robert Jenrick ordered staff to paint over pictures of Disney characters on the walls of a child refugee centre as he thought the cartoons made it look too welcoming. I would call that 'dripping in spite'.

The Tory government's refusal to extend free school meals to the poorest children during the school holidays during Covid was 'dripping in spite'.

By 'dripping in spite', I presume you mean that the Labour Government is bringing in policies to benefit the majority of children who don't attend private school and not the 7% of already privileged children who do.