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Conservatives and Labour - is there really any difference for middle class working families

208 replies

Sweetcup · 28/10/2024 08:14

Please convince me otherwise as I'm feeling utterly depressed.

I really can't see what is on offer to middle class families from either party - it appears to be exactly the same. High taxes, no guarantee of decent state education or access to medical care, horrible driving on roads, criminals out of prison early picked up in luxury cars. Our salaries are worth less than they were 7 years ago.

In principle I don't mind paying high taxes but it really doesn't seem to be a guarantee of anything. Our local state secondary is dreadful as a few (non-working) families seem able to disrupt the education of the rest. As a tax payer I don't feel either the Conservatives or Labour have ever spoken to me directly about what my money is doing and what they are guaranteeing for it.

We cut right back (no Netflix, eating our, no takeout) to put money into our pensions and now I just feel like that means we will have done it to pay for other people's state funded retirements.

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BIossomtoes · 29/10/2024 20:32

Alexandra2001 · 29/10/2024 19:24

I doubt the "very" and am beginning to question the "intelligent" part.

You gave the benefit of the doubt for much longer than me.

Alexandra2001 · 29/10/2024 19:24

Hateam · 29/10/2024 19:04

They could work on community projects for their benefits.

Win. Win.

I doubt the "very" and am beginning to question the "intelligent" part.

IVFmumoftwo · 29/10/2024 19:22

Hateam · 29/10/2024 19:04

They could work on community projects for their benefits.

Win. Win.

They did that before. They weren't paid.

BIossomtoes · 29/10/2024 19:12

What community projects? We don’t have slave labour any more. Anyone who works gets paid at least the minimum wage.

Hateam · 29/10/2024 19:04

thepariscrimefiles · 29/10/2024 18:05

What if the people on benefits that you deem 'undeserving' have children? Are you still happy to remove the benefits and let the children starve?

It all sounds very Dickensian.

They could work on community projects for their benefits.

Win. Win.

Alexandra2001 · 29/10/2024 18:33

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:24

I do believe there are undeserving poor.

Give generously to the deserving.
Not give to the undeserving.

Edited

Well, as you're v intelligent, what would you do with the 'undeserving?

I mean, do you really want to be stepping over the homeless and dodging the street beggars when exiting the Opera?

So where would they go?

thepariscrimefiles · 29/10/2024 18:05

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:24

I do believe there are undeserving poor.

Give generously to the deserving.
Not give to the undeserving.

Edited

What if the people on benefits that you deem 'undeserving' have children? Are you still happy to remove the benefits and let the children starve?

It all sounds very Dickensian.

rainfallpurevividcat · 29/10/2024 15:04

We like to think we got rid of the undeserving poor with the Victorians, but the Tories have done their damnedest to thoroughly demonise anyone supported by the state, helped by the media- tons of poor bashing/ridiculing TV in the 2010s. Apart from sainted pensioners, of course.

IVFmumoftwo · 29/10/2024 14:46

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:24

I do believe there are undeserving poor.

Give generously to the deserving.
Not give to the undeserving.

Edited

I will bite. What happens to the undeserving?

Bluefields96 · 29/10/2024 14:40

On the deserving/undeserving question, I have an idea.

HMRC should ask people to tick boxes saying where they want their tax revenues to go: eg Defence, Education, Health Care for Deserving People, Health care for those with drug and drink addictions, Environment, Roads, Elderly care, State Pensions, Child Benefit, Infrastructure, Deserving Poor, Undeserving Poor, MP Salaries, Prisons etc.

Obviously the money would still be divided up as it is today but it might make a lot of people feel a lot better about the deductions made from their incomes!

Mlanket · 29/10/2024 14:38

People are desperate to go back to the Victorian times, well for others not them of course.

BIossomtoes · 29/10/2024 14:37

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:08

Pay only people who are truly deserving.

Like elderly people with money in the bank and houses they don’t need any more? I don’t think so. We got rid of the deserving and undeserving poor with the Victorians.

Mlanket · 29/10/2024 14:30

I'm very intelligent.

And self aware?

twistyizzy · 29/10/2024 14:30

AzureLemon · 28/10/2024 21:13

Well as a middle class person I'm hoping for improvements to the NHS and schools under this government. Even if I have to pay more tax.

Am so sick of the fake furore and fearmongering in the right wing press.

You know you can already make voluntary contributions to HMRC and could do that monthly, plus state where you want your money to go?

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:29

Mlanket · 29/10/2024 14:28

I do not believe that everybody who gets a disability payment is deserving of that payment.

You can say that about every benefit though, it doesn’t mean we scrap the benefit for everyone else.

Didn't say we should.

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 29/10/2024 14:29

Public services, economic growth and social mobility were all way better under the last Labour government.
They are the opposite of the Tories. Trouble is it will take years to repair the damage the Tories have done and people will start blaming Labour for thing outside their control. It's already happening.

Mlanket · 29/10/2024 14:28

I do not believe that everybody who gets a disability payment is deserving of that payment.

You can say that about every benefit though, it doesn’t mean we scrap the benefit for everyone else.

Alwaystired94 · 29/10/2024 14:24

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:22

I'm very intelligent.

ahhh ragebait troll it seems.

crawl away and go and be boring elsewhere if you can't at least be creative.

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:24

Alexandra2001 · 29/10/2024 14:11

Back to the 'deserving and undeserving poor...

Got any suggestions as to who you would give too and take from?

I do believe there are undeserving poor.

Give generously to the deserving.
Not give to the undeserving.

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:22

I'm very intelligent.

Alwaystired94 · 29/10/2024 14:16

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:10

I do not believe that everybody who gets a disability payment is deserving of that payment.

and what qualifies you to make such an assessment?

Alexandra2001 · 29/10/2024 14:11

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:08

Pay only people who are truly deserving.

Back to the 'deserving and undeserving poor...

Got any suggestions as to who you would give too and take from?

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:10

Mlanket · 29/10/2024 14:01

Or pay out less in benefits.

what on earth does this mean? Cut disability payments so care homes are free? This would then be a benefit..,

I do not believe that everybody who gets a disability payment is deserving of that payment.

Hateam · 29/10/2024 14:08

BIossomtoes · 29/10/2024 13:58

You mean pay out less in benefits that aren’t in your favour. Your fully tax funded residential care wish would definitely come under the heading of benefits.

Pay only people who are truly deserving.

Sofaspot · 29/10/2024 14:08

You just mean for your personal finances? We'll have to wait and seen but for me, the improvement of having people who appear sensible and actually want to solve the problems in health and social care, education, prisons, environment, infrastructure etc rather than score personal points all the time is huge.

I don't know if they can succeed, and no doubt there will be mistakes along the way, but so far it is such a breath of fresh air.

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