Being dry at night toilet training... should I force it?

Honestly, listen to the doctor and not your MIL!! Just leave her in pull ups for now and take the pressure off her and yourself. It's not a big deal, some kids just take a bit longer to physically develop bladder control at night.

IT might help you to hear that we had Brownies (aged 7-10) on sleepovers who weren't dry at night. They mostly used pullups. In many cases their friends knew and didn't bat an eyelid. Where it was more "secret", they were discretely helped by an adult with disposal etc.

My ds was in pull ups until he was 13. Went through all the help, advice and medication with the enuresis clinic and nothing worked.
My daughter was day and night trained at 2.
Nothing I did influenced either end of the spectrum.

My son was older and it all worked out in the end. We took him to the GP and once we determined there was nothing physical or psychological we just waited and told him pull ups come in size 7-11 for a reason! Tiny bladders run in the family. The pull ups were good for his dignity because nothing woke him. We all stayed calm and it stopped, literally overnight at 10.

Don't restrict fluids. Take her to wee before bed and put her in pull-ups at night. Once she's consistently dry then you can try without them. My nibbling was still in pull-ups at 7. My kids stopped around 3. It's not something they can control.

There really needs to be more information about the reality of the need for actual sufficient levels of hormones to be dry at night. It drives me crazy.

Training comes in when they are, for example, waking up and choosing to wee in their nappy. DS was like this - he'd half wake up around the time he would ge tup but choose to just wee in his nappy. But when they wee at night because they just don't have any control and are sleeping, there's very little you can do.

+1 same experience. Never had a dry nappy in the morning, or a night wake for toilet but put potty near the bed and over time the bed wettings dropped.

The savings on nappies is significant! Remember to double up on bed sheet and mattress protector so a night time change is easier.

Yes waking them at night is not recommended by doctors. (Also, I am done with being up in the night with kids and will not go back to it).
one of mine was dry at night young, the other very old (9). But then the hormone kicked in and they were dry overnight and never had a wet night again. Don’t let anyone pressure or shame your daughter.

Also ERIC says waking them at night doesn't actually help

Have a 6.5 year old and seeing GP this week about it as he is starting to get fed up of wearing a nappy at night. Assume it is hormonal and so not worried about him at all. We tried a couple of times in the same way as with other DC who was dry at night from age 4 and had the occasional dry night but mostly it wasn't working so we haven't been too worried about it. School nurse gave us the ERIC info and their website was useful. Stick with the nappies.

+1 to say you absolutely can train once a child is 4yrs old.

We used the Oh Crap! Method (basically waking them and putting them on the loo 1-2 times a night).

With my oldest boy we did it when he was 4 before school. He was still waking up every morning with a soaked nappy.

For a week I’d be changing the sheets at least once each night, but after a week it suddenly clicked with his body and he lasted through to the morning.

For my youngest he was 3 and was leaving a dry nappy about once every 3 days. He was much quicker with fewer accidents on the way.

So it’s definitely possible for at least some children o are not going dry through the night IF that is what you choose to do.

I would believe so. 5 of us (50s - late 60s) 2 dry around 3, 1 at 8, 1 at 9 and 1 at 11. My kids (40cm h) - one at 3 and 1 at 7.

She will be dry in her own time. Use the night nappies. All your husband is doing is making her anxious and worried.

A Irish instagrammers runs courses on exactly this topic - recommended. Deirdre Holland Hannon.

This is our experience too. Yes, you can’t do anything about the hormone and my almost 9yr old is like this, clearly doesn’t make the hormone yet and can still have accidents if we aren’t managing fluid intake, what she drinks, how tired she is etc. The bed wetting alarm can’t do anything about the hormone, but does help the body learn to wake with a full bladder. I don’t get the fervour on MN for ‘nothing you can do’ - I think it’s logical that if we just leave them emptying into nappies for years then that’s what their body expects to do, that physical habit can be worked on, in absence of the hormone doing the work for them.

OP, I’d say 4.5 is too young for the alarm though. I’m preparing to do it soon with DC2 who is 6 and not sure if she is quite ready, they need to be very motivated themselves to take on the challenge.

Re MIL, just tell her the kid is dry now and don’t discuss with her.

My older two were both 6 before they were out of night nappies. One of them had the standard experience of nappies gradually being drier, so we tried going without and he was fine. My daughter had v full nappies at 4 but wanted to try going without and slept right through wetting the bed. So we went back to nappies and by 6 they were still v full every morning but she wanted to try again and that time she was dry and never wet the bed. So it’s worth trying every now and again even if nappies are still full. With both of them we took them for an 11pm wee for a week or two but it wasn’t necessary for any length of time.

My eldest child is 6.5 and still in soaking wet pull up nappies every night. This is despite multiple attempts at going without, restricted fluids before bed, wee before bed and so on. She's starting to get a little embarrassed and upset about it sometimes now which is really sad. I spoke to the GP about a year ago and they said the only things they could suggest was a bed wetting alarm and/or periodically try for a week at a time without the nappies. They said they wouldn't be looking at medication to help until at least age 7 but usually more like 9. I've broached the alarms with my child multiple times and they're adamant they don't want to try them.

Like you my family are very outspoken about it as if it's some failing on our part which is ridiculous. I also know this is not true as our second child went reliably dry at night themself whilst still wearing pull up nappies at 2 yrs 10 months, a couple of weeks after daytime training.

I dont think you can force it no, have 3 DDs all toilet trained before 2 and the 2 eldest naturally because dry through the night only a few months after being toilet trained.

3rd was the opposite, trained easy like the older 2 during the day but only became dry during the night at 4.5 and quite literally it was like a switch flipped and she started getting up through the night, we have few small accidents but 95% shes fine.

Only thing i did do was making her more aware, so i would say ok lets go for a pee before bed, then i would say, even though your pull up is on if you need a pee its ok to get up. i dont know if that made a difference but it felt like it did.

Agreed @Singleandproud. I'm a cub leader (so ages 8+) and there is usually a couple in pull ups on camp each year.

It's not unusual, people just don't talk about it.

20 years ago I used to work at a residential outdoor activity centre so 300+ children a week, 6 years + and there would always be several in night time nappies so much so we kept a stock of different sizes in our first aid cupboard should any guest forget theirs or need more.

You can't force it. Reducing and cutting liquids will only cause more bladder issues.

I have to disagree with all the people who say "You can't train it" - this really depends on whether you are talking about "regular nighttime continence/incontinence" vs "actual enuresis" (which is a form of parasomnia).

Enuresis is a thing which is known in all societies, and it does seem to be linked to sleeping patterns and drowsiness in general.

With regular continence/incontinence issues, though... yes, it is basically trainable, in that kids who don't have enuresis usually do learn after a few nights of wet sheets. The nappies and pullups essentially delay the learning process by ensuring the child never has any uncomfortable feelings from urinating; there is a reason why "average" kids (without enuresis) seem to be achieving nighttime dryness later than they were a generation ago.

You can't teach or train night time dryness.

The child has to be producing a hormone that wakes them up when they need a wee.

I'm surprised your GP said come back at age 5. Most aren't bothered til age 7/8

My DS was toiket trained at 2.5 but not dry at night until nearly 6.

Whilst my DD was trained at 2.5 and dry at night 2 weeks later.

One was producing the hormone and one wasn't.

Going against the grain somewhat but I removed nappies from my 3 year old who was consistently having wet nappies in the morning and he quickly got night trained as he was waking up and then weeing. My youngest was getting after I did this at 4 but went back into nappies (although he purposely wet the bed because he wanted to come into ours for a cuddle- nice play Mr!). He's again out of nappies at 4.5 but is mainly dry. He does occasionally wet but I see more potential this time and I have a washable wet layer (like a puppy pad) on the bed so I don't need to strip the bed - only that pad and a 'sacrificial" blanket. It's less stressful for us both as for him it's only wet pants/pjs as the pad absorbs the wee and for me, less washing as it's not the whole bed.

It's hard, but you need to figure out if it's a lack of biological control, lack of wanting to get up for a wee or done on purpose (I've had all three!). I do suggest the incontinence pads though as it's a winner for everyone.

My DD was on Desmopressin until she was 13 .. she also took medication to keep her dry in the day for a while. Some kids get the hormone, some don’t. Some kids have physiology issues .. DD had a very short tube from kidney to bladder, and could easily get infections due to some backward flow.

18 now and all is fine. All the “reducing drinks in the evening” and “lift them at night” won’t cause a hormone to kick in.

i was a bedwetter until I was 12, parents never looked for help, I felt so ashamed … I made sure my daugher never felt that way.

Most people probably didn’t talk about it or admit it in my parents’ generation.

Disposable nappies can take away the feeling of wetness but DS wouldn’t wake up if he wet the bed and wasn’t wearing a nappy.