To choose the local state comp over the high achieving private boys school?

I do think people comparing their own experience at school, whether state or private, is irrelevant really. Schools are very different places now.

That certainly didn't apply to me. When I went to the state secondary I didn't work hard. I could do academically well without actually putting in much effort.

Perhaps it was because I started years head after being in a selective prep school. . But in all honesty I was mainly bored so messed about. Threats of my grades slipping if I didn't work hard were totally empty. Could do the work in half hour of a 2 hour lesson then mess around for the other time.

Nobody is playing the system! People are just sick of paying up and tax on top and even the middle classes are feeling the cost of living. And Sixth Forms are mainly selective anyway. Most of the very successful ones operate like grammar schools with top set kids on par with top set kids in private schools. So why would anyone keep paying? It is the 2 year period children are almost adults and have to focus heavily on work rather than extracurricular as much. It makes no sense to keep paying unless the child does not want to leave their friends. However, in many cases they can easily stay in touch post 16 anyway as they travel independent. I really hope there will be enough Sixth Form places for all given this VAT. Our grammars have taken quite a few extra kids this academic year already.

Playing the system

@catstaff47 - there are loads of helpful websites now where a bright DC who wants to can get themselves up to a 9 doing past papers etc and watching videos. Things have changed. For those with a will to do well, the internet is very helpful. Obviously it is harder than in a selective schools or a selective set where other kids are working hard, but it is doable.
Where we live in London, lots of the comprehensives have very good top sets, especially in Maths and Sciences. Some schools even have special programmes like Mandarin Excellence or a Maths or Music Focus which can be exceptional. We need more of these programmes across all areas of the country and working with unis seems to be a really good way to foster this.

In fact, a lot of the parents who demand highly of children are in state schools, many simply cannot afford private schools. Some private schools are full of rich kids who will inherit with less pushy parents and frequent holidays as opposed to revision. It really does depend on the school and kids, not whether private vs state. And as many will point out, for many kids an individual teacher can really inspire them. You can get good and bad teachers in both sectors. It is always a combination of child’s ability and passion for learning, schooling and parental attitudes.

I have seen so many DC in comprehensives get told they are in the 'gifted and talented' stream. Then they come out with 7s max. Nothing wrong with 7s, but it's not what you might expect if they were actually 'gifted.'

I myself underachieved at a state school because I was singled out in this way. Also I didn't want the 'she's a square' mocking that was daily.

They are also not in sets for everything. A teacher is going to have less time / energy to explain to a child who is getting 7/8 in say, practice history papers, how to push that grade up to a 9, when they have to focus on getting others in the class up to a basic pass level.

how do you know about expectations for top set students at state school?

Just saw your update that the independent school is over 90% 9-7 at GCSE.

Imo, compared to the state option (20% 9-7) l, it's a no-brainer to go for the independent. Your son has done very well to get in - presumably entry has been very competitive? Why put him through that if he's not going to go?

Obviously there will be bright kids in the state school and probably some streamed sets for them. But don't underestimate the difference in 'normal expectations' when they go to a school where pretty much all their peers will be working at 9-7. It's a totally different education. The whole ethos of the school is geared towards that kind of pace and extension beyond the curriculum. When he's working at a top level, teachers won't be making him out as 'special' - it will just be normal. It makes pupils push themselves for 9s, rather than always being told they are 'top set' and resting on their laurels. His peer group will all be like him - he won't stand out at all if he's aiming for all 9s. I've seen so many children 'dumb down' in state schools and just settle for 7s rather than 9s because teachers are always telling them they are 'top set' so they just think this is 'good enough' and also (importantly) they don't want to stand out too much in their peer groups. In the (very selective) independent, the whole culture and ethos will be different. Teachers don't need to divide themselves between pupils aiming for 4s and those who potentially could get 9s. The whole learning pace will be aimed at the very high ability of the cohort and they all get carried along with each other as standard. That is what you would be paying for. It's nothing to do with 'connections' or even extra curricular. You can get these anywhere. The fact is, your DS will come out with top grades, almost guaranteed, just by being very average in his school. A school like that will only take the top maybe 5% of children (in terms of academic ability). Peer group matters way more than teachers at this age. He will measure himself by his peers.

It’s not prejudice it’s just they are no longer given the advantage they were given historically so it feels like prejudice.

The other thing to think about is onwards destinations. I work in law so 99% of my friends send their kids to private. They are all moaning about the prejudice in terms of Oxbridge / law / medicine applications against private school kids.

Many are taking their kids out of private for A-Level because of it.

This is exactly our situation. Except DD is officially "gifted" (1-2%).

We have decided on state. The girls school has issues around eating disorders and can be very toxic too. I also think DD would burn out doing such long days plus homework on top. She currently plays 4 instruments and practice time would be a problem. The burnout for me is the key issue here. The streamed top set do achieve 9s. I would look less at the overall grades and more at the top set grades only.

That said, if your child has to work hard / probably exceeding but closer to average than gifted, I'd be inclined to go private. These are the kids that get lost in a state system IMO.

We signed both teens up to a local club / dance school respectively that they both attended and enjoyed from 12 17. They made outside school friends there. Frankly neither of them are more than competent and never would be but they enjoyed the activities and stayed fit.

Dd1 recently left state school with strings of 8s and 9s, A star A levels and a place at a RG university and a lovely solid group of friends for life. I genuinely don’t see what we would have got from paying hundreds of thousands.

My daughter isn't sporty but her best friend is an excellent footballer and plays at a very high level. The state school they attend has an excellent netball and football team, the football team won a national championship last year.

It depends on the school, it depends on the sport.

This. I'm not from UK and I never cease to he baffled by the very dramatic claims about state schools. The vast, vast majority of the UK population go through the state system and most UK people I know seem as normal and successful as anyone from any other country. Astonishing, given that they survived the horror of the UK state school. It really seems so silly and detached from reality to write off state schools like that. I didn't go through the UK system, maybe I'm missing something. For what it's worth, the long commute would turn me off. Maybe also the high fees unless it is easily affordable (as in, I don't think the pay off is remotely worth making significant sacrifices, not in a system where most go to state...but if money is no object, then sure, if it suits your child).

I would not be willing to sit on a coach for an hour each way to get to work, and I certainly wouldn't expect my child to do that for school.
Add up all the hours of his youth that he will be spending on that coach, and then make your decision.

Buses and coaches are the worst for my travel sickness, and it gets worse when tired. I would choose the local comp on that alone. It is the absolute worst feeling to still be 40 mins from home and not be able to escape, and he'd have to do it every day poor lad. Honestly I would've said private till you said this.

But the standards are not the same. If you want to play top level netball then you need to join a top club, it's full of private school kids. Same with the cricket, hockey...all of it. The standard of the Private school kids is better.

You can't completely match a private school, just not possible plus the attitude of the kids is more focussed towards learning. We have an outstanding comp on our doorstep, it's full of teachers who don't care because they know it's an affluent area and all these kids are having tutoring outside of school, eating into their evenings. I'd rather they have fulfilled school days and after school clubs then chill when they get home.

Btw I went to an inner city comp, my parents were illiterate - I made it to a RG Uni but I still think Private is worth it for my kids.

If I were you I’d choose the state school. The journey to the private school is too long. What a waste of precious time! Personally, I would never choose a single sex school so that would rule out the private school in question anyway. (An all boys environment does not represent the real world and is not therefore a good preparation for adult life, in my opinion.) If the state school doesn’t work out for some reason you could always move your son private at a later stage. It might be a bad idea to switch to private though because many universities, and maybe even some employers, now actively discriminate against privately educated applicants. Also, private is SO expensive: you will easily be able to pay for all the music lessons, sports coaching, clubs and other extracurricular activities your son would have done at private school - and academic tutors - with the money you save. If you choose state the whole family will have a better quality of life. With supportive parents, and one to one tutors where needed, there will probably be little to no difference in the grades he achieves. In addition, if your son goes private their friends will live miles away which will make any kind of social life much more complicated and they will be much more dependent on you ferrying them around. I think having local friends and the freedom to make their own way to and from school is really important. It is also an advantage to be exposed to all sections of society rather than living in a privileged bubble. He will probably end up more well rounded and resilient at the state school. Finally, if he goes to the state school you don’t have to move house if you don’t want to and your younger children can go to the primary school you like - and these are not insignificant points.

Well it seems the grad scheme only accepts applicants from state school, so happily it should be easy to swerve a company like this.

Agree with this. Remember, the results at the highly selective private will be high because it only takes the brightest pupils. And the parents will be almost all heavily invested in their child’s education. I’m not sure what the value add would be ( maybe more school trips and clubs)

take away the education and you’d probably find these kids would do just as well academically at a good state school.

the state school will have more of a mixed bag ( you say you’ve seen some rough kids). So if it’s achieving above average then that’s a good sign.

All three of my DC are in private schools - have been since reception.

In the situation you describe I would choose the state. An hour long coach trip twice a day is too much - and it being so far away will be a pain for you to go to sports fixtures / school events / parents evenings etc. expectations of parental involvement are often higher at private schools.

the local school is outstanding with a small catchment - if he’s bright he’ll do fine!

I’d only endure the distance if I felt he was going to struggle academically or get in with a tricky crowd at the local one.

In your case private.

State school will be a more ‘real’ experience for what life is like afterwards. They will mix with children from a more diverse range of social backgrounds. The class sizes will be bigger and they probably won’t get as good grades, however, being able to mix with people from all walks of life is an important factor of getting ahead in life I would say.

I’s always choose state if it’s decent. They need to learn about life as well as studying. As for rough kids, there will be some absolute wankers in private school. Up their own arses and entitled. Mixing with all kinds of kids and both sexes is better for learning about life and developing skills for me.