To stop my 83 year old parents driving 200 miles on Christmas Eve

I assume because she doesn't live at the football ground where his team will be playing?

NOT ALL MATCHES ARE TELEVISED and a boxing day match is a big event in the season and the social calendar

Why can't he watch football at yours on Boxing Day?

DO NOT PUT THEM ON THE TRAIN!! I travel 10-20,000 miles by train annually in the UK. I get £100s refunded every year for nightmare journeys. The only question is whether the disruption will be mild or severe on Xmas Eve, and whether there will be any service at all on Boxing Day. It is likely First Class will be declassified, reservations suspended and trains delayed, cancelled or run with standing room only. Staff assistance will be unable to reach them through overcrowding. People will be distressed. Rarely, fights can even break out. There is no slack especially on those days, so if things f&$% up they risk being bussed or taxied last thing at night or put in a hotel not of their choosing.

(Edit: I’m actually pro-train, though it works best if you have a PhD in ticketing so you can manage pricing, work out timetabling to minimise or get round disruption, leave some slack eg so you’re not relying on the last train, and be prepared with manageable luggage, snacks etc. Expect everything to go wrong - it usually doesn’t.)

I was at a big reunion yesterday. Most participants were between eighty and ninety. Some of them had driven hundreds of miles. All had to drive because the venue was in the back of beyond. Nobody was tired from the driving. They were all just the same as they were forty odd years ago when we last met.

I can see that from the perspective of younger people the idea of an 83 year old driving distances and "getting tired" seems obvious, but for fit, healthy people of that age, they are really as cognisant and able as they were in their youth.

You either let them drive or not see them over Christmas. There appears to be no alternative. I know you'll worry, but I'm sure they'll be fine.

I have been thinking more about this, and whilst I, much younger, wouldn't do it any more on Christmas Eve, I was doing it after work so it was mostly a drive in the dark and at the busiest time.

I'd suggest that they need to be sensible, take a view on the weather (heavy rain or snow being reasons not to come & call into M&S for food) and if the weather is reasonable, set out early and factor in plenty of rest stops - even if to just stretch legs.

I've very rarely had a 200 mile journey take 3 hours btw, there's always roadworks and an accident that slow you down especially where the M6 or M25 are involved.

@ButterCrackers it's not that they're unreliable, it's that they're non-existent on Boxing Day!

OP can offer to pay for whatever she likes, but it's pointless with the service doesn't actually exist

This is the issue- plenty of people are safe driving in their 80s. Some need to stop well before. Pride has to be set aside for the safety of others.
It can't be a selfish decision, and short of resitting a driving test, it's not possible for an external body to assess reflexes, or propensity to fall asleep. Children sometimes have to be listened to.

Patronising and infantilising.

Also, have you been on a train lately?

Cancelled trains leading to cancelled seat reservations, aisles full of people and luggage, missed connections...

My mother gave up driving when she was 91. In the last couple of years she would not have been happy driving longer distances but at 83 not only would she go up and down the A1 to see me, but we would go away on holiday together, sometimes abroad, with our sharing the driving.
When she did give up we were all relieved as her spatial awareness had deteriorated, but I noticed when we drove on her 92nd birthday that she was still very alert to traffic conditions.
Im always a bit nervous of driving on Christmas Eve - partly because the roads are very busy and partly because of the narrative imbued by years of programmes like Casualty, where you know if someone is on the motorway on Christmas Eve there is bound to be a disaster.

Just because he’s 83, it doesn’t automatically mean he’s an unsafe or at risk driver. My parents were still driving (well) in their 90s. My dad didn’t even need glasses and he was 93.

At 83, he's an adult and gets to decide for himself. Not to be told what to do like a child

Not entirely true. I know plenty adults who've had to report their own elderly parents for unsafe driving. It's not that uncommon for elderly people to deny they are a risk on the roads and need intervention to ensure the safety of others. I bet the mother of the 3 year old who was mown down and killed near me by a 90 year old mounting the pavement wishes her family had stopped her driving. Sometimes it is necessary to intervene.

How busy the roads are must really depend where you live.
Has he done the drive at Christmas before, if do he will know how busy it is snc whether he would manage.
Personally I drive London to Glasgow and there always talk about how busy it's gonna be and it is always fairly quiet.

This ^

DDad gave up his licence due to catraracts and it being the right thing to do. He was upset about it, very much so, but got over it.
DM, 81, still drives and will continue to do so until she feels she is not safe to do so anymore.
Would they be having a break on the way up or home OP ?

It’s better to take the train/bus than be an unfit driver (aggressive) causing a crash with consequences for others for always. They sound able to walk and manage. If not then assistance can be organised. I know that the trains are unreliable and expensive but they are not travelling daily for work.

Forgot the bit where they stopped for ages and told people that if you are standing some ofyou will need to get off as the train is too busy to move. Cue everyone getting off. (Not!!!) Train v passenger impasse.

With the best will in the world, @BeGladHedgehog, you've said a few times that you'll pay for the train etc, but as people keep saying, there will probably be no trains, at least on Boxing Day. And doing a 200-mile journey by train on Christmas Eve is a NIGHTMARE (literally the nightmare before Christmas - sorry, I’ll get my coat. But it is). Fistfights have been known to break out. It’s genuinely horrendous.

As it happens, I live 200 miles from family and I either drive or go by train, so this scenario is very familiar to me. There’s no better alternative, I'm afraid. Driving will also be hell. The normal 4-hour trip can easily take 5, 6 or more at Christmas thanks to sheer weight of traffic, and you’re just in a virtual queue the entire way. I wouldn’t fancy that on your mum's behalf with an aggressive driver in his 80s. If he was laid-back and an ex-driving teacher, then no problem, but if he scares everyone anyway?

Unless they can fly (terrible for the environment - I know) I honestly think they should stay at home. Sorry.

In relation to my dad’s driving, I don’t have any recent personal experience, but all I know is he is a very aggressive driver, and my sibling won’t get into a car with him, and my mum hates being a passenger, as my dad gets in such a bad temper (this is not a recent thing - he has been like this all of this life)

So he has always been an aggressive driver but you didn't have any objection to him doing this drive in the past, so why now? You don't (from what you say) have any evidence of him being less safe than he was a year ago.

I’ve expressed my concern and said that I’m very sorry but I can’t let them do that and I can only agree to the arrangement if they agree to take a train.

This is why people are responding as they are. An invitation to Christmas being offered only on certain terms. Which is pretty offensive, and which no-one is going to react well to.

OP had not said that her father is unsafe to drive. Her sister thinks he's fine.

I'm very aware of the effects of increasing age, and fully intend to stop driving when I'm not as responsive as I should be (but don't we all say that?). But if I was given an ultimatum like that (at Christmas of all times) I would not react well, and I can imagine digging my heels in.

Just interested. If he says ‘no’ to the train, are you ok that they won’t be coming for Christmas (and possibly other times)?

Do you take the train often OP.
took us 5 hours to get what would have been a 1.5H drive.
Standing in the rain for 1hr on first leg waiting for a rail replacement that never happened. Another train mobbed because the previous one was cancelled (oh and that first class was therefore gone along with any seat reservations.) Change of platform so mad dash over the bridge. Also no space for luggage.

Are your parents fit enough for all this. I actually liked it but wouldn't want my 83 year old parents doing it especially if it becomes cold and icy.

This. All the people furiously defending older drivers’ rights are conveniently forgetting that it isn’t just about them, it’s about everyone else on the road, all of whom have the right not to be put at risk because some is too sensitive or stubborn to accept that they don’t have the reaction speed or stamina that they used to have.

Let him drive and take himself back for the footie and your mum could stay on and go back by train. Then she only had to endure one journey with him. My dad is same age and would not be phased by a 200 mile drive as long as he planned toilet stops in advance! In fact we're live on South coast and he would still drive to Scotland to see family.

You don't give any information about your father's actual driving skills other than he is aggressive. What does this mean? Sometimes being slightly aggressive is safer than being overly slow/cautious. If the DVLA say he is fit to drive and you have no actual evidence to the contrary then you are being very unreasonable. It's only 200 miles, easily do-able with a coffee break half way and much more relaxing and convenient than any other option. It's not your decision and you need to deal with your own anxiety.

Don't be such a twat. OP has offered to pay for them to travel by train in 1st class and will pick them up from the station. Her dad is an aggresive driver, her sister won't go in a car with him driving and her mum gets stressed out in a car with him. If he does drive, OP would like them to stay for longer so that they aren't travelling on the two of the busiest days of the year.

Why do you think that all means that she doesn't want to have her parents for Christmas, when she would actually like them to stay longer?

My parents are in the 70s and I have to tell them because by continuing to drive, they are putting the safety of others at risk. It's incredibly selfish.
They say "x y z is older than us and still drives". Maybe they do but my parents' driving is not safe anymore. Only someone who has been their passenger for a while would know that.

I'm livid my mum has started driving again after a break and waiting for them to become unsavoury news items.