Difficult situation with sister and nephew

The notion that we should never tell another child in our own homes that they are behaving badly is ludicrous.

I would (and have) put up with a lot for a child struggling to learn behaviour and social skills where their parents are really working to help them develop. I will put up with sod all for an obnoxiously behaved child whose parents encourage that behaviour and who cause my own family distress.

Make your own arrangements with your DP, keep well clear of DS family and if asked then tell them why. Your DP have to make their own decisions. If your DP and you both have tried to talk to your sister/BiL and they don't want to know and continue to excuse and encourage this behaviour then you can only shield your own family from the consequences.

Your sister and dickish BiL have opted out of parenting, undermine any attempt to tell the child if he is wrong and are leaving the rest of the world to deal with the consequences. The DC whose parents were like this when mine were young became the largely unemployable under achievers in adulthood. Frankly its a form of child abuse.

It’s really really likely that he has additional needs.

One in ten children who have a cousin with adhd will themselves have adhd.

I appreciate that your son’s diagnosis is autism but as I’m sure you know the two diagnosis have a lot of overlap, and children with one neurodiversity often have a second.

If she’s not ready to discuss it with you, it might be worth seeing whether you could get her to check with nursery if they have any concerns about whether he’s ready for school?

My son has adhd and, the one thing I would have done differently as a parent if I had known earlier, is that I would have delayed his school start by a year.

@Ozanj “He’s 4. Nothing you’ve described is out of place for a 4 yo who hasn’t started school yet”
What planet are you on? A 4 year old child is old enough to know right from wrong. This child smiles when he gets his own way, smiles when he deliberately breaks things, as he knows his mummy will always take his side. There are no punishments, or even apologies, for his dreadful behaviour. All that’s ever said is “he’s just 4” and his cousins are blamed for overreacting, when he deliberately destroys their belongings and grabs their food before just spitting it out.

This is not normal, he’s just 4, behaviour. It is absolutely disgraceful that you are trying to turn the blame on the OP and telling her that she “should manage your DC’s ASD in an appropriate way”!
.

@Sunshineandalltherainbows I think you are definitely doing the right thing, distancing your family from being in the same space as this awful little boy and his equally awful mum.

Your sister, if she doesn’t change her attitude soon, will find that no one wants to socialise with her and her ‘d’ son. The fact that you are now distancing your family from them, should be enough to set the alarm bells ringing for her.

I work with children from 2 to nearly 5 years old. I can assure you that grabbing food from another child's plate and then spitting it back on is most certainly out of place for even a 2 year old. I am horrified that you would consider this normal.

Not to worry you but my DS was in primary school with a boy with quite severe behavioural problems. He was destructive, spiteful and a bully. His parents wouldn't have it. He was just being a boy apparently. He went to a behavioural unit several times but his parents wouldn't discipline him. He is now an adult and in prison.

He was clearly jealous of your DS' attention and so had to ruin it. He's breaking things for attention. If his parents do not sort this out now his life is going to be hard. We all have to live with each other and his behaviour will not be tolerated outside the family.

I'd put my DS first and have nothing to do with her son.

My neighbour's kid is exactly the same and she "parented" him the same way as your sister did. Guess what's happening at school now he's 14? He's getting the shit kicked out of him by much older boys because he doesn't understand boundaries.

He's constantly being suspended from school & probably won't be long before he's in trouble with the law. My neighbour swore blind it was everyone else's fault until the day he also beat the shit out of her.

Now she's too frightened to have him at home so he's staying at his dad's. A completely avoidable situation if she had only parented him properly.

"He's only 4" - at what age does she think he will spontaneously stop acting like some sort of wild animal 🤔

If she sees nothing wrong that's up to her. Everyone has tried. She has right but not much responsibility as a parent.
Next she faces the consequences of her choices. You are allowed to avoid and do things separately. In school there will be consequences with staff, learning and socially with peers.
She's made her decision .You have the right to make yours too.

This is OPs sister and nephew and OP cares about her family clearly from the posts she's written. It isn't helpful for her getting these riled up posts about her family.

Thinking on it, I wonder if your sister would ever be open to just going for a catch up - a drink , a coffee or something just the 2 of you OP See how it goes and what comes up in discussion. Appreciate you may have no desire or capacity for that.

It's not for you to fix all this of course. It sounds like family mean alot to you and you can at least know you've done all you can your end.

I could have written this and we are further down the road to you. My DSIS is exactly the same with my nephew. He is diagnosed with ADHD and her excuse for not parenting is because of this. When he goes round people's houses he breaks things, goes through drawers and cupboards pulling stuff out. Goes into rooms he's been told not to and she does nothing. He and my youngest are both 8. My oldest is 10. He is violent towards my youngest but not the oldest. Outside he breaks things, in playgrounds takes stuff of other kids and breaks it and throws it away. She does nothing but says "aww but he can't help it". I've tried to talk to her but she gets defensive. Thing is she won't accept it if another child does similar to hers. We no longer invite them over, we limit context to maybe once a month now because my kids dread being with him.

I could understand the cake incident if the child was 2 but even by 2.5 children have a decent sense of right and wrong.

Even at 2 or 2.5 a decent, caring parent would not have sat back and ignored it, much less made light of it, the norm would be to stop the offending child and tell him the say Sorry, even if he doesn't know what it means. Social training should be starting once a child is mobile and verbal.

This is a nightmare, this kid needs boundaries and he needs them asap. 4 is old enough to know better and not grab someone else's food and spit it out! Is she going to be saying "he's only..." for ever "oh he punched a man in a pub, aw well he's only 18 can't be helped"

I don't know what to suggest but I would be limiting time with them for sure and definitly not seeing them at Christmas. Whether you tell them why is up to you! Feel sorry for the Grandparents too if they are constantly round.

I don’t think anyone can say that the nephew is ND at this point, because he doesn’t have any boundaries imposed around his behaviour. If the parents were trying to create some and he was resisting them, that would be one thing, but this is completely different because the parents aren’t doing that- the kid is allowed to do whatever he wants and his parents laugh or laugh it off. Until or unless they actively try to work on these destructive/aggressive/unpleasant behaviours, no-one will know how he reacts against boundaries.

Exactly and it sounds as though the parents will be constantly at school complaining that their little precious was upset when some horrible teacher had the temerity to tell him off.
Teachers are not there to replace lazy parents but sadly are expected to wipe their bums because no-one can be bothered to toilet train them, teach them to use cutlery and so on.

Protect your child from this nonsense.
limit contact.

Nephew prefers not to be looked after by myself and my dad and prefers to be with my mum if he isn't with my sister.

Hardly surprising if the others don't pull him up on his behaviour. He will find school challenging then.

//Sounds like your sister isn't coping but if she doesn't address things soon he's not going to be invited anywhere.//

Sounds more like the sister can't be bothered to 'cope', she'll probably be making excuses for him, 'he's only 16, 21,35' for the rest of his life. Unfortunately others will not be as indulgent of his brattish behaviour, if he had spat food out in my house he would have been sent out of the room, with or without his couldn't-care-less mother and he certainly wouldn't becoming to my home at Christmas unless she gets off her derriere and addresses the problem.

Sorry OP but your sister and her DP are complete idiots if they are rewarding and encouraging their son’s awful behaviour with positive reinforcement- laughing and celebrating it by filming and sharing. No wonder he keeps doing it.

Even if you get through to her it sounds like her DP is a cretin, teaching a 4yo to repeat violent threats.

You tried to speak to her but she got defensive so your instincts to avoid her sound sensible. Invite your mum and dad out for coffee, lunch etc instead of going round there. And yes, the plan for the breakfast on Christmas Day with your parents sounds ideal. Stay strong!

@Sunshineandalltherainbows

Oh for Heaven's sake, this is NOT 'normal' behaviour for a 4 year old! I raised 2 boys plus have scads of nephews and NONE of them behaved like that, not even at 3 years old. They weren't perfect, but they didn't go round breaking things on purpose nor spitting food on someone else's plate!

Listen, there is nothing you can do about your nephew's behaviour except to not be around it. But I certainly wouldn't keep quiet about it, either. There is nothing wrong with inviting your parents to your house for Xmas breakfast to avoid your own children being upset by him, but I wouldn't be 'hush hush' about it. I wouldn't trumpet it, but I wouldn't hide it either. If DSis were to ask I'd tell her that you are tired of her son's behaviour and having your DC upset and their belongings destroyed, therefore you have decided to wait until she decides that he's 'old enough' not to behave so badly.

You only have a few minutes to edit a post then it times out.

@Keiththecatwithamagichat this 100%.

Maybe she knows her child is possibly also on the spectrum but doesn't want to acknowledge it, so she says "he's only 4"

He sounds developmentally behind other children who have learnt not to spit and hit at that age. How's his speech? Does he go to nursery?

I could be way off the mark but I know from experience parents can be in denial when thier children are not neuro-typical and "he's only 4" is a way to excuse behaviour and not face that it might be ASD.

There was a child like this in my child's primary class. Always in trouble, would hurt other children, do and say silly things. The other children didn't like him. I privately thought there might be some additional needs and felt a bit sorry for the parents. One day when my DS was 9, said child got hold of DS's shoe at after-school club and threw it over the fence into neighbouring back gardens. When I arrived to pick up DS the mother of the child said I'm afraid Johnny has been a silly boy and thrown Billy's shoe. Can I give you £50 to replace them? Of course I said I wouldn't take the £50 and that we were going to go and ring on people's doorbells and ask if we could look in the gardens for the shoe. Her response? Oh OK then. No attempt to explain to her son that what he had done was anything other than 'silly'. No attempt to get him to apologise. No insistence that he should help look for the shoe. I was shocked. They moved away soon after, but that year group still talks about 'Johnny Smith'. I really wonder how that turned out - I still think there may have been some ADHD, but her parenting really didn't help. Your sister needs to develop stronger boundaries for her DS for HIS sake as well as everyone else's, otherwise he'll be very unpopular at school.

Good point.