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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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MonkeyVsBunny · 05/01/2025 19:41

Tryingtokeepgoing · 05/01/2025 09:43

Tesla’s are mass market relatively cheap EVs, and I agree that there are few EVs that can compete with it at the price point. It’s the fleet car of choice - effectively the modern day rep mobile like the Mondeo. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if price isn’t a key factor there are better EVs out there. There are plenty with better tech, better range, better quality and that are nicer to drive. The public charging network is better than the Tesla one for convenience, but worse for price.

I was an early adopter of Tesla and the Model S 10 years ago now. They don’t sell that in RHD anymore, and while I tried the 3 I got rid of it after 18 months or so and replaced it, first with a Polestar and now a BMW. While the product was the primary reason, the image of Tesla and Musk also played a part. I quit Twitter when he took that over, and have no regrets there either :)

I’ve still
got an old model S that’s free to charge - so I can’t discount cost - at only £15k nowadays with the safety and tech in them I don’t think you can beat it. Still does 220 miles!

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 10:19

1dayatatime · 05/01/2025 10:03

@Orchidzombiewatch

"Do you feel the same about other things? Eg blood diamonds? Do you ever think about your consumer choices or never?"

Blood diamonds are illegal. To be honest I am more concerned that 50% of all solar panels at homes or on 90% of large solar farms have been made with Muslim Uighur slave labour in concentration camps in China.

Musk supporting Trump or Farage pales in comparison I'm afraid.

The treatment of Uighur Muslims in China is abhorrent. I agree. We haven’t got solar panels but I’ll take this into account if we do. Thanks.

Pretty much all consumer choices are fraught with moral and ethical considerations if you look into it. It’s impossible, I think, to be perfect in this way.

I do my best but I can do better and that’s a constantly occurring theme. There are times when I make quick decisions because I’m tired, stressed, busy or it’s just simply more convenient and there are times I work harder at it. It’s a direction of travel I’m on but it’s a winding and bumpy road and I’m not always great at steering.

OP posts:
Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 10:13

MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira · 05/01/2025 10:06

OP do you buy Nestlé?

Nope. That’s one I do boycott. Except I did buy a particular nestle chocolate bar once to deliberately go against my values to show love and care to someone. I should be shot right! We are ALL hypocrites in one way or another and I’m not telling anyone what to do/not do. I was just curious about whether anyone feels cognitive dissonance and some do as it happens. Interesting to hear the different views.

OP posts:
Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 10:10

Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:47

The problem is, it is impossible to fact check now. It's a very serious problem. I don't know where I can go for true and unbiased information.

I agree. I usually google search ‘fact check’ and then whatever it is. Then check out the first couple of sites to see who they are. But that’s all time consuming so mostly I stay away from SM and remain sceptical about everything I hear that sounds shocking. I’ll dig deeper if it’s important to me. It’s not perfect but it’s better than blind faith I guess. It is going to be impossible to get agreed standards globally so we are going to have to do our own research more and more. There are no truly independent news sources. Some have much higher standards of journalism than others and there are some fact checking organisations that are independent.

OP posts:
MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira · 05/01/2025 10:06

OP do you buy Nestlé?

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 10:03

missmollygreen · 05/01/2025 09:39

So you can pick and chose when to care. But you are happy to call out other on their choices?

Have I?

OP posts:
1dayatatime · 05/01/2025 10:03

@Orchidzombiewatch

"Do you feel the same about other things? Eg blood diamonds? Do you ever think about your consumer choices or never?"

Blood diamonds are illegal. To be honest I am more concerned that 50% of all solar panels at homes or on 90% of large solar farms have been made with Muslim Uighur slave labour in concentration camps in China.

Musk supporting Trump or Farage pales in comparison I'm afraid.

Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:47

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:35

Agree. Research tells us that we all process information in biased ways. No one holds ‘the truth’. I agree with you and I’m in no doubt that my views aren’t perfectly ‘right’ or ‘the truth’ and of course I’m influenced by what I read and see. I’m human, with all the information processing biases that all humans have. I do think it’s important to fact check things though. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

The problem is, it is impossible to fact check now. It's a very serious problem. I don't know where I can go for true and unbiased information.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 05/01/2025 09:43

MonkeyVsBunny · 05/01/2025 09:03

Would love to know which brand you think has “caught up”

Tesla’s are mass market relatively cheap EVs, and I agree that there are few EVs that can compete with it at the price point. It’s the fleet car of choice - effectively the modern day rep mobile like the Mondeo. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But if price isn’t a key factor there are better EVs out there. There are plenty with better tech, better range, better quality and that are nicer to drive. The public charging network is better than the Tesla one for convenience, but worse for price.

I was an early adopter of Tesla and the Model S 10 years ago now. They don’t sell that in RHD anymore, and while I tried the 3 I got rid of it after 18 months or so and replaced it, first with a Polestar and now a BMW. While the product was the primary reason, the image of Tesla and Musk also played a part. I quit Twitter when he took that over, and have no regrets there either :)

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 05/01/2025 09:42

If you feel strongly about it you withdraw your economic support, it's the power you have.
I'd probably not buy a tesla.

missmollygreen · 05/01/2025 09:39

Orchidzombiewatch · 25/10/2024 18:08

Not MS because I need it for work and Bill Gates is a philanthropist. I do try and avoid Amazon due to tax evasion and treatment of workers. I can’t say I’m always on that though. It’s an area I fall down on when I need something quickly! No one’s perfect.

So you can pick and chose when to care. But you are happy to call out other on their choices?

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 05/01/2025 09:37

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:01

Not really. I think we might have similar priorities. We have an EV that does the job very well. 300plus range. Easy charging.

Tesla did a great job in the early days but it’s all caught up now more or less. I agree though that climate change is the biggie. But Trump is going to be a disaster in that way.

Like I said before. There is no easy answer. It’s a minefield. I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t do XYZ but was curious about the possible cognitive dissonance of owning a Tesla - particularly for women as I see EM as representing toxic masculinity and supporting patriarchy.

But I’m very aware that every consumer choice made has potentially negative impacts in some way or other. I do my best but there is always room for improvement. I see the direction of travel as the most important bit. Where am I heading? Sounds like we are both trying to head in the same direction more or less but taking slightly different routes - which is fine.

I will say that he has gone from not great to much, much worse since we bought our car, and since the choice of decent EVs has also grown considerably I am not at all sure I would make the same decision now. I do still love the car, though.

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:35

Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:25

"Lots of people just trust what they read on SM and don’t think to do a fact checking search. I think it’s a skill that we need to be teaching children. If I read or see anything on SM that evokes a strong emotion or seems unbelievable then I do a quick fact check search or just ignore it. There is so much out there that is just simply misinformation."

I suspect you're one of those who doesn't do much reality checking on your positions... just get off social media altogether if you feel like that. Because no amount of fact checking can counteract the drip drip of all the propaganda that's there and you're clearly influenced by. Don't wait until you encounter "strong emotion or something that seems unbelievable" to go checking alternative sources, because your perspective is already warped and biased in favour of your own outlook. So plenty of things which are untrue or distorted you will be taking on board as confirmation, when it's not in full accordance with reality.

Agree. Research tells us that we all process information in biased ways. No one holds ‘the truth’. I agree with you and I’m in no doubt that my views aren’t perfectly ‘right’ or ‘the truth’ and of course I’m influenced by what I read and see. I’m human, with all the information processing biases that all humans have. I do think it’s important to fact check things though. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

OP posts:
Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:28

Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:19

@Orchidzombiewatch What do you mean by easy charging? Which ones are hard to charge?

Also, you might be to ungrateful to acknowledge it but Elon Musk has done feminism an extraordinary favour by lifting the ban of discussion of women's rights in the public square. I can't think of anything he's done or said that even in the smallest way dents that huge net positive for women and girls.

Our old one was on a DC charger and could only charge up to 22KW per hour so there were fewer charging options, it took longer and we had to do it more often. Perfect as a little runaround (and only cost a couple of grand to buy second hand now) but we now have one with a longer range, can draw down more KW per hour, charge in the time it takes to grab a coffee and nip to the loo and way more chargers fit. I love it.

I know EM has done some good. He moved the EV market on incredibly for example. We are all elements of dark and light. No one is all good or all bad. No one is perfect and everyone is hypocritical in some ways. But personally, I think he’s unhinged. And lots of what he says and does I find distasteful and/or abhorrent these days. It is interesting to me to hear the difference views of him and owning a Tesla.

OP posts:
Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:25

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:18

I imagine it’s because if you are down the SM algorithm that encompasses climate change denial, toxic masculinity, far right racist views, then there is a lot of misinformation around about EVs. It’s all very easy to debunk with a quick fact check search.

Lots of people just trust what they read on SM and don’t think to do a fact checking search. I think it’s a skill that we need to be teaching children. If I read or see anything on SM that evokes a strong emotion or seems unbelievable then I do a quick fact check search or just ignore it. There is so much out there that is just simply misinformation.

"Lots of people just trust what they read on SM and don’t think to do a fact checking search. I think it’s a skill that we need to be teaching children. If I read or see anything on SM that evokes a strong emotion or seems unbelievable then I do a quick fact check search or just ignore it. There is so much out there that is just simply misinformation."

I suspect you're one of those who doesn't do much reality checking on your positions... just get off social media altogether if you feel like that. Because no amount of fact checking can counteract the drip drip of all the propaganda that's there and you're clearly influenced by. Don't wait until you encounter "strong emotion or something that seems unbelievable" to go checking alternative sources, because your perspective is already warped and biased in favour of your own outlook. So plenty of things which are untrue or distorted you will be taking on board as confirmation, when it's not in full accordance with reality.

Annabella92 · 05/01/2025 09:19

@Orchidzombiewatch What do you mean by easy charging? Which ones are hard to charge?

Also, you might be to ungrateful to acknowledge it but Elon Musk has done feminism an extraordinary favour by lifting the ban of discussion of women's rights in the public square. I can't think of anything he's done or said that even in the smallest way dents that huge net positive for women and girls.

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:18

Examconfusion · 05/01/2025 00:57

Out of interest, why wouldn’t you buy an electric car, and why would you only buy Tesla if the time came?

I imagine it’s because if you are down the SM algorithm that encompasses climate change denial, toxic masculinity, far right racist views, then there is a lot of misinformation around about EVs. It’s all very easy to debunk with a quick fact check search.

Lots of people just trust what they read on SM and don’t think to do a fact checking search. I think it’s a skill that we need to be teaching children. If I read or see anything on SM that evokes a strong emotion or seems unbelievable then I do a quick fact check search or just ignore it. There is so much out there that is just simply misinformation.

OP posts:
Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:12

MonkeyVsBunny · 05/01/2025 09:03

Would love to know which brand you think has “caught up”

I love our EV. Long range. Easy charging. Some great automatic features. I’m not up for an EV brand debate though. That’s a whole other (very boring thread). I’m actually not that interested in cars. They are just a necessity. I was more interested in whether there was a feeling of cognitive dissonance for, particularly female, owners.

OP posts:
Countrylife2002 · 05/01/2025 09:07

Foofedifiknow · 25/10/2024 21:06

Ugh agree - if I bought a tesla I’d feel like a Hand maiden voting for Gilead status quo
Cringe cars
objectionable plutocrat owner

EXACTLY!!

Countrylife2002 · 05/01/2025 09:03

Orchidzombiewatch · 25/10/2024 17:16

How do you feel about Elon Musks links with Trump and Putin and that you are supporting him with your car choice?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/25/elon-musk-has-been-in-regular-contact-with-putin-for-two-years-say-reports

I think this every time I see a Tesla! It immediately gives me an impression of who the driver is.

MonkeyVsBunny · 05/01/2025 09:03

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:01

Not really. I think we might have similar priorities. We have an EV that does the job very well. 300plus range. Easy charging.

Tesla did a great job in the early days but it’s all caught up now more or less. I agree though that climate change is the biggie. But Trump is going to be a disaster in that way.

Like I said before. There is no easy answer. It’s a minefield. I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t do XYZ but was curious about the possible cognitive dissonance of owning a Tesla - particularly for women as I see EM as representing toxic masculinity and supporting patriarchy.

But I’m very aware that every consumer choice made has potentially negative impacts in some way or other. I do my best but there is always room for improvement. I see the direction of travel as the most important bit. Where am I heading? Sounds like we are both trying to head in the same direction more or less but taking slightly different routes - which is fine.

Would love to know which brand you think has “caught up”

Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:02

mswales · 05/01/2025 01:02

Highly recommend this site/magazine for those interested in being an ethical consumer. It's so useful for checking any product/company against a whole range of criteria.
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/

Bank accounts, mortgages, insurance and pensions are where your money can make the most difference (and where it does the most harm if not done ethically)

Great link. Thank you.

OP posts:
Orchidzombiewatch · 05/01/2025 09:01

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 25/10/2024 21:24

Well, I hesitated before buying mine because of him. I wanted an electric car with enough range that I could get where I needed to for work efficiently and a functioning charging network, and the Model 3 was at the time the only option. The only other viable option for me would have been another fossil fuel car and I wasn't prepared to do that because my primary focus is to do what I can for the environment. So... competing priorities that are different from yours, I suppose.

Not really. I think we might have similar priorities. We have an EV that does the job very well. 300plus range. Easy charging.

Tesla did a great job in the early days but it’s all caught up now more or less. I agree though that climate change is the biggie. But Trump is going to be a disaster in that way.

Like I said before. There is no easy answer. It’s a minefield. I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t do XYZ but was curious about the possible cognitive dissonance of owning a Tesla - particularly for women as I see EM as representing toxic masculinity and supporting patriarchy.

But I’m very aware that every consumer choice made has potentially negative impacts in some way or other. I do my best but there is always room for improvement. I see the direction of travel as the most important bit. Where am I heading? Sounds like we are both trying to head in the same direction more or less but taking slightly different routes - which is fine.

OP posts:
mswales · 05/01/2025 01:02

Highly recommend this site/magazine for those interested in being an ethical consumer. It's so useful for checking any product/company against a whole range of criteria.
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/

Bank accounts, mortgages, insurance and pensions are where your money can make the most difference (and where it does the most harm if not done ethically)

Ethical Consumer

Your personal ethical consumer guide. Independent product guides, research, information and analysis since 1989.

https://www.ethicalconsumer.org

Examconfusion · 05/01/2025 00:57

Thepurplepig · 05/01/2025 00:49

I would never buy an electric car. However, when it comes time Tesla will be the only electric car company I’ll give the time of day. I don’t give a toss about people’s politics generally. If they’re not a whack job liberal nut case it’s a bit of a bonus.

Out of interest, why wouldn’t you buy an electric car, and why would you only buy Tesla if the time came?