To be beginning to think there is some sort of bot presence here starting threads doing down the UK?

MrsBixbysMinkCoat · 2024-10-25T13:24:04+00:00

I am so fed up with it. Nearly every day there is a thread about how awful the UK is. Today it's about how filthy we are compared to other places. A couple of days ago it was about how shyte it is here. Moaning about the NHS, weather, transport, about how Ukrainian refugees feel sorry for us, about bloody everything. There are lots of things I dislike about Britain in 2024. However, this is still a beautiful country where the vast majority of people live peacefully. The very worst thing about this country is that we don't realise how bloody lucky we are. It's not too hot like Southern Europe (sunning yourself on a beach in 38 degrees might be lovely; working in a kitchen every day much less so), not too cold like Russia or part of Canada. We don't get hurricanes like the Southern US has just dealt with. We don't get floods on the scale of Bangladesh. We don't get earthquakes like Japan or Haiti. We don't have volcanoes like Iceland or Italy. We don't have poisonous snakes and spiders like Australia or India. We don't have wild animals stopping us roaming freely like Africa. We don't have drug cartels running things on a huge scale like parts of South America. Neither do we live under despotic rule like North Korea. We don't live in daily fear or famine like the horn of Africa or of war like the Middle East. Our women are reasonably free and not forced to live diminished lives like in Afghanistan. We live in a generally benign Western democracy and yes times have been hard and yes some of that has been self inflicted - eg via Brexit - and yes we have struggled with leadership too removed from working class priorities. Yes there are knife crime issues and gangs in some of our cities and towns and I wish there weren't. But *on balance* in a global scale this is fucking paradise compared to many people's lives. Please can we have a thread bigging up the UK instead of this constant, neverending, tone deaf whingeing, that really is one of *the* worst things about the British (and possibly, the English most specifically).

Original poster

MrsBixbysMinkCoat · 27/10/2024 13:11

@Rorymyers
How can it be ignorance or a lack of geography when I have now said 3 or 4 times on this thread that I was brought up in East Africa?

It's really annoying how you persist with this line of thinking when I have already debunked it over and over. Just stop.

OP posts:

Rorymyers · 27/10/2024 09:30

FYI OP I do not disagree with your post in general. And yes I read it all. I just called attention to that your throwaway line.

Rorymyers · 27/10/2024 09:28

MrsBixbysMinkCoat · 25/10/2024 18:19

You were born and bred somewhere in Africa and have never seen a wild animal? Sure.
When I was a child in East Africa as I already explained in this thread if you had bothered to read it, we were not allowed outside of our garden on foot. This is because there were troublesome baboon troops roaming locally and they were very bold, possibly a bit like urban foxes in the UK. But bigger sharper canines. We also had to be very aware of snakes and scorpions and were not allowed to get out of the car when out in the countryside until my parent had done a "snake sweep". We also had to check every shoe for scorpions before we put them on, and when camping we had to use UV lights around the campsite of an evening to check for scorpions. We were not allowed to swim in any rivers or lakes except very fast flowing water, in case we got leeches or, more likely, bilharzia (which we actually did get). We had to walk with shoes on always to avoid chiggers in the toes.

Now you might argue that bilharzia snails and chiggers don't count as animals but they curtailed our freedom to just run around mindlessly.

We didn't have lions in our back yard or anything and I never claimed that was the case. Though we did get lions around our tent one night while camping...

Also where did I say Africa is only known for animals? To be honest I mentioned the animals because there was a strange juxtaposition in my childhood of theoretical freedom in an amazing landscape but actuality was, I had much more freedom to hop on a bike or go round to a friend's house on foot when I used to visit my grandmother in the UK. So I guess that is what sprang to mind. There is far more to the country I grew up in than animals - but I never said there wasn't.

Edited

'Typical bloody Mumsnet that in requesting a thread bigging up the UK I end up having to repeatedly defend my credentials - based on one throwaway line in my opening post '

Hahaha typical MN OP that thinks your post is read by you and people who are identical to you. Every word you post is subject to interpretation and that 'throwaway line' was most relatable to me and another 'throwaway' line might be relatable to someone else. We can not all be the same.

The misconception that Africa is filled with wild animals has for a long time been due to negative media representation. You clearly believe it and hence said it in your 'throwaway line' either due to ignorance or a lack of geography.

Yes I repeat I have never seen a wild animal, after having being born and bred! That is 100% the truth so do not invalidate my own experiences.

I hope at least you can take from this conversation how it comes across to be specific when mentioning other countries but then when it comes to Africa it's referred to as a place filled with wild animals. This ignorance and lack of knowledge about African geography and diversity needs to stop.

I wish you a lovely day.

Rorymyers · 27/10/2024 09:24

'Typical bloody Mumsnet that in requesting a thread bigging up the UK I end up having to repeatedly defend my credentials - based on one throwaway line in my opening post '

Hahaha typical MN OP that thinks your post is read by you and people who are identical to you. Every word you post is subject to interpretation and that 'throwaway line' was most relatable to me and another 'throwaway' line might be relatable to someone else. We can not all be the same.

The misconception that Africa is filled with wild animals has for a long time been due to negative media representation. You clearly believe it and hence said it in your 'throwaway line' either due to ignorance or a lack of geography.

Yes I repeat I have never seen a wild animal, after having being born and bred! That is 100% the truth so do not invalidate my own experiences.

I hope at least you can take from this conversation how it comes across when mentioning other countries but then when it comes to Africa it's referred to as a place filled with wild animals.

This negative ignorance and lack of knowledge about African geography and diversity needs to stop.

I wish you a lovely day.

SlowPonies · 27/10/2024 08:21

Seashellssanctuary · 27/10/2024 06:05

24 hrs news and SM are the culprits. We are exposed to doom and fucking gloom every second of every day with thousands of different outlets with their own agendas.

Tune out of all of this and life looks immediately rosier..

It’s true.

Children need to be taught that consuming too much 24 news junk (it’s hardly informed and quality panorama documentaries - more rapid fire media bias headlines) and social media, makes you overly negative and cynical, managing a healthier media diet can make you happier and more positive).

Seashellssanctuary · 27/10/2024 06:05

24 hrs news and SM are the culprits. We are exposed to doom and fucking gloom every second of every day with thousands of different outlets with their own agendas.

Tune out of all of this and life looks immediately rosier..

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 26/10/2024 23:33

NC1029 · 25/10/2024 14:43

I agree. It's possibly either bots or people who haven't lived outside of the UK. The UK has its problems like everywhere else. It's not a utopia and neither is it a hellhole on a relentless path to self destruction. It's a perfectly nice place to live for the majority of people, and those people who are really struggling in the UK would struggle in any other country, whether that's due to poverty, ill health, mental illness, just plain old miserableness etc. These are problems bigger than the country you live in, and I can't think of anywhere in the world where you wouldn't struggle with those.

I agree, especially about people who haven't lived abroad. Anywhere can be heavenly when you're enjoying it as a visitor. When you're actually living in another country you see the downsides of everyday life. And many countries are less friendly to foreign workers than Britain is.

Having worked in several other countries in and beyond Europe, I have many happy memories. Yet I certainly appreciate England a lot more now than before I had anywhere else to compare it with.

Apolitia · 26/10/2024 23:10

Barbadossunset · 26/10/2024 12:50

@Apolitia is it possible for you to give some examples of the particular linguistic patterns?

Nah. It’s proprietary natural language processing for particular market subsectors.

MissConductUS · 26/10/2024 14:08

if I lived in the USA or Ireland again, unless my employer paid for a very high level of insurance. I wouldn’t get this because of pre existing health issues.

You can't be denied insurance or charged more for it in the USA due to preexisting medical conditions.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/community-rating/

Community rating - Glossary

Learn about community ratings by reviewing the definition in the HealthCare.gov Glossary.

https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/community-rating

Loub1987 · 26/10/2024 13:19

I moved to the UK about 13 years ago. I’ve worked and lived in other countries, Ireland, China and the USA.

I really like it here, people are generally courteous and polite. I personally have had a lot of care from the NHS, if I lived in the USA or Ireland again, unless my employer paid for a very high level of insurance. I wouldn’t get this because of pre existing health issues.

Education is good (as far as I can see but I do think the whole phonics things is silly….).

There is history, resources and access to opportunity.

Im quite pleased to live here. It’s not perfect, but where is?

Barbadossunset · 26/10/2024 12:50

@Apolitia is it possible for you to give some examples of the particular linguistic patterns?

Hippee · 26/10/2024 12:38

In the Millennium Dome my favourite thing was an exhibit of things that were typically British. It was a joyful collection of 100 things, ranging from bluebell woods and phoneboxes to M&S underwear.

I think we also need to remember that there's nothing Brits love more than having a whinge - which can be cathartic too.

What I love is that the Facebook algorithm has me accurately pegged as a sentimental middle-aged woman - I am bombarded with a virtuous circle of feel-good posts.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 26/10/2024 12:27

Barbadossunset · 26/10/2024 12:04

Apolitia · Today 11:30

No problem with anyone criticising anyone :/ The issue is with posts that follow a particular linguistic pattern and tend to mirror the main lines of political attack used by opposition parties and the gutter press. Honestly it’s very obvious to anyone who does analysis for a living

Do you think the same about the constant criticism of Tories?

Yes well the Tories deserve the bashing they get. They are the reason why standards have dropped. They ripped the country off aided and abetted by the hard of thinking, envious, resentful, spiteful and economically inactive.

Barbadossunset · 26/10/2024 12:04

Apolitia · Today 11:30

No problem with anyone criticising anyone :/ The issue is with posts that follow a particular linguistic pattern and tend to mirror the main lines of political attack used by opposition parties and the gutter press. Honestly it’s very obvious to anyone who does analysis for a living

Do you think the same about the constant criticism of Tories?

EasternStandard · 26/10/2024 11:36

Apolitia · 26/10/2024 11:30

No problem with anyone criticising anyone :/ The issue is with posts that follow a particular linguistic pattern and tend to mirror the main lines of political attack used by opposition parties and the gutter press. Honestly it’s very obvious to anyone who does analysis for a living.

I doubt it. People cast 'bot' about on here like confetti. To anyone not pro Starmer pretty much

I've been hear for ages, I can mostly tell who is making stuff up and have seen the rise in 'bot' 'HQ' from pro Labour

Apolitia · 26/10/2024 11:30

No problem with anyone criticising anyone :/ The issue is with posts that follow a particular linguistic pattern and tend to mirror the main lines of political attack used by opposition parties and the gutter press. Honestly it’s very obvious to anyone who does analysis for a living.

EasternStandard · 26/10/2024 10:56

Apolitia · 26/10/2024 10:43

I completely agree. It’s very obvious. It’s either bad actors, tinpot political propagandists, or the gutter press like the Standard, DM, Daily express etc. probably all of the above. My job is analytically- based with a heavy degree of tech, and it’s clear as clear can be. I’m also not at all confident that suspect threads are being taken down. No serious information manipulator or propagandist is going to sign up with a fresh account and use a clear unobscured IP address! So many will appear to ‘check out’ but aren’t who they seem.

Show quote history

Really? What’s with this no one can be criticising Starmer for real. Of course many are I just think Labour voters haven’t had it much until now

Apolitia · 26/10/2024 10:43

StaunchMomma · 25/10/2024 17:09

I've definitely seen a ramping in the last few months. The Starmer hate has been particularly OTT. It feels like managed smearing, rather than opinion giving.

Show quote history

I completely agree. It’s very obvious. It’s either bad actors, tinpot political propagandists, or the gutter press like the Standard, DM, Daily express etc. probably all of the above. My job is analytically- based with a heavy degree of tech, and it’s clear as clear can be. I’m also not at all confident that suspect threads are being taken down. No serious information manipulator or propagandist is going to sign up with a fresh account and use a clear unobscured IP address! So many will appear to ‘check out’ but aren’t who they seem.

Original poster

MrsBixbysMinkCoat · 26/10/2024 10:28

The place I grew up in was a beautiful place full of wonder, not a terrible place. But it had very significant downsides in relation to a core feeling of safety.

I guess I am reminded of the Dr Suess book "Did I ever tell you how lucky you are?". We are so lucky to live here - even now when things are hard. This country isn't beyond hope. We need to recognise how immensely privileged on a global scale we are to live here, and work towards helping it get better instead of just pointing out all the problems and feeling miserable.

OP posts:

EasternStandard · 26/10/2024 10:19

Whenwillitgetwarm · 26/10/2024 09:33

Britain is a great place to live for many reasons. I love living in London. However, there’s no escaping that there has been a fast decline in many areas over the last decade.

People like me who were born in England and grew up here will notice the difference and have a right to not be happy to see the decline in living standards and expect better.

Someone like OP who grew up in what sounds like an awful place, is comparing that with here and quite reasonably believes the UK is fantastic in comparison. It’s similar in a way the Kemi Badenoch who claims that mothers gave too many rights here etc. She’s comparing the UK to places she’s grown up in which had far worse standards.

Of course if you come from a place where the police will stop families at gunpoint and steal their shopping, roads full of potholes and not being able to get the police to attend a crime, or see a GP for weeks is completely fine.

However, many of us are used to better and are concerned that if we can fall so far in a decade, what will things look like in other decade? I for one do not want to be saying well at least it’s not as bad as in X country in East Africa. I’m aiming higher for me and my kids.

She’s comparing the UK to places she’s grown up in which had far worse standards.

How do you know this is her motivation?

x2boys · 26/10/2024 09:43

Newterm · 25/10/2024 15:14

I’m lucky to live in a nice village and to pay for private health treatment. I’ve got no mortgage or worries about money so I’m insulated from how things are to a great extent.

however. We went to the high street this morning. It’s a long city high street. About half the shops are boarded up, there are a couple of chain stores but mostly money laundering shops and cafes. Loads of fast food places with a big congregation of Uber drivers standing around outside next to their electric bikes. A very large amount of rough sleepers and each street bench at the top of the high street had rowdy drunks with cans of cider. The high street had the stench of weed. It was a total shit hole. So if that’s all you see, and you can’t get away from it then you could be excused thinking that the country has gone down the pan.

My local town centre is like thst too ,I think the days of people going into their local town centres to shop are long gone ,having said that in the very nice middle class village thst my parents live in there Haa been an influx ,of nice independent cafe,s and bistro,s which do very well.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 26/10/2024 09:33

Britain is a great place to live for many reasons. I love living in London. However, there’s no escaping that there has been a fast decline in many areas over the last decade.

People like me who were born in England and grew up here will notice the difference and have a right to not be happy to see the decline in living standards and expect better.

Someone like OP who grew up in what sounds like an awful place, is comparing that with here and quite reasonably believes the UK is fantastic in comparison. It’s similar in a way the Kemi Badenoch who claims that mothers gave too many rights here etc. She’s comparing the UK to places she’s grown up in which had far worse standards.

Of course if you come from a place where the police will stop families at gunpoint and steal their shopping, roads full of potholes and not being able to get the police to attend a crime, or see a GP for weeks is completely fine.

However, many of us are used to better and are concerned that if we can fall so far in a decade, what will things look like in other decade? I for one do not want to be saying well at least it’s not as bad as in X country in East Africa. I’m aiming higher for me and my kids.

1WanderingWomble · 26/10/2024 00:13

Gosh some posters were so thrilled to have a chance to lecture you about mentioning Africa OP. Well done for putting them back in their box! I think in some ways it's illustrative of the tone of a lot of MN posts and threads, there's a lot I enjoy on here but I have to take a break sometimes from the relentless sniping and negativity.

I'm worried about lots of things not being or working as they should in this country, but I still think we're incredibly lucky to live here and I agree there is something almost artificial about some of the threads that get started, especially the politics ones.

NC1029 · 25/10/2024 23:58

L1lyflower · 25/10/2024 20:26

Wasn’t the right time. Loads of places we could have gone. IT

Show quote history

If it wasn't the right time then, it never would be. It's one of those "wishful thinking" things, like the fact that I'll never move to Australia. It's much better in thought than in practice, otherwise I'd have already done it. It's much easier to regret something you never tried. One of the reasons people don't do these things is so they can wallow in their amazing alternate life occasionally, when real life gets too mundane. Or maybe that's just me 🤦‍♀️

feellikeanalien · 25/10/2024 21:27

I've lived in two other European countries apart from the UK. Everywhere has its pros and cons. I do think that the advent of online shopping and out of town shopping centres has decimated UK high streets but I think other European countries are not far behind.

Our nearest local town in Portugal used to have one biggish supermarket and lots of local shops. It now has Lidl, Aldi and two more big supermarkets. Last time we went back to visit the small local vegetable shops, butchers and bakers were much fewer in number. Property prices have also risen hugely and the locals struggle to get rentals. Salaries, especially in the service industries are low and because it is a popular tourist area there are many second homes and Air Bnbs.

I think that if you have money you obviously don't feel the changes as much and at least they have sunshine but if you can't afford to pay your rent then that isn't much of a consolation.

I think the problem is that life is just so more expensive now and if you haven't lived anywhere other than the UK there is a tendency to think that this is just a UK issue. It isn't.