Has anyone ever been to a messy church event?

But the Christians organising it say it IT IS ALL about that. That the fun you were having is meaningless and heartless without that. That meeting other mums is worthless, a waste of time, unless you are doing it "for Jesus." They haven't invited you because they want you to have a nice time, they've only invited you so they can convert you to their faith.

A reminder of what they say:

it would STILL be a waste of time, fruitless, rootless and heartless unless Christ is the reason for doing it, the means of doing it and his glory the outcome of doing it.

Maybe you are happy to ignore that. Personally, I would be uncomfortable accepting an invitation to somewhere where it's purported to be one thing but the actual reason I was invited is so I could be converted to someone else's religion.

I've sat on my dusty church hall floors doing crafts, sing song, holding a cuppa and a biscuit. I thought it was fun and great way to meet other mums. And I'm not religious but these events were never about that.

Where does the ‘sadness’ come from @SuperfluousHen ? What possible explanation could there be to not welcoming a group of people who want to take part in a wellbeing activity in what would otherwise be an empty building at that time of the weekly calendar?

For me ‘Christian’ behaviour includes welcoming with tolerance and respect.

@YourLastNerve has it, I hope that we can look forward to a time of change for these incredible buildings, one where the dwindling elderly congregations once or twice a week are replaced with vibrant and varied community groups using churches on a daily basis.

What unchristian behaviour?
I said I felt sad.
am I not allowed to feel how I feel anymore?

I don’t see Christianity as necessarily monotheistic either, even if you count the Trinity as a single entity. The NT wouldn’t describe a battle between god and the devil if the devil wasn’t deemed equally powerful.

I was brought up in the church, I have no strong affiliation to it now as an adult old enough to make up my own mind.

I have to say that its attitudes like yours @SuperfluousHen that mean I have little time for it.

I have no room for prejudice of any kind in my life, we all have different beliefs and backgrounds, I’m always struck by how unchristian behaviour often comes from those who claim to be practising christians.

Agree with this. Fair enough to include religious activities but should be transparent about that

One of our local churches is a Tesco downstairs and had a swanky restaurant upstairs for a while.

Yoga in a building intended as a meeting place for the worship of God 😬 it just makes me feel so sad 😞

Church buildings in the UK were largely funded by enforced levies for centuries on the population, many of whom were not truly donating out of choice. The entanglement of church/state/the aristocracy makes it nigh on impossible to separate them from other public buildings and imho they should be considered as belonging to the community, just as ancient monuments like Stonehenge are. When anglicanism largely dies out in the UK in the next 50 years many of those buildings will be deconsecrated and fall into public ownership anyway, as lots of churches already are. The church in my village has a single digit elderly congregation that can no longer afford paid clergy or the upkeep of the building, there are hundreds more like it.

It's the definition of CofE. Relaxed, friendly, caring and welcoming without being pushy. I'm not religious but always feel comfortable in a Church of England Church.

Aren't you doing the same by telling them Jesus doesn't exist? Every parent imposes their beliefs on their children even if you aren't aware of it.

Thats not what I tell my children. I tell them people believe different things, and we don't have a lot of evidence for the existence of a god so its not a fact that one exists, but that for some people belief or faith brings them comfort and joy. Its very annoying the way school talk about god & other christian stories as if they are absolute facts, and as if the creation story is a historical event rather than probably an allegorical story to help people of the past understand the world around them.

What's that got to do with yoga as most people practise it though? Would imagine very few people practising yoga in any building give much thought to Hinduism.

Christians are monotheistic.

As all my kids are older now I feel an adult themed messy church would be fun 🙃

There's just such a contrast between people saying "it's barely religious at all" and the actual religious zealots who run it, who say things like "it's sad to see a yoga class in a church" and this: https://www.messychurch.brf.org.uk/what-messy-church/christ-centred

These people don't see any inherent value in putting on activities for your kid. They literally think it's a waste of time to take part - it's "heartless" - unless it's done for their religious reasons. I think it's instructive to read why this is happening and it is ONLY to spread their religion.

But the mystery (and annoying thing and huge relief all at the same time) is that we could do all that work and do it brilliantly but it would STILL be a waste of time, fruitless, rootless and heartless unless Christ is the reason for doing it, the means of doing it and his glory the outcome of doing it

Why?

If you are a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, it’s totally incompatible.

What's wrong with Hinduism?

It's not really a religious ceremony. It's a small prayer or bible story that lasts about 5 minutes. The rest is child based activities. The last one I went to we made had smores outside and they did colouring in and painting. I am not religious but I can pipe down for 5 minutes and respect others' values in a church if I want my kids to join in the activities. If you find it tiresome or stupid, then it falls into the same category as being offended and you just don't go. No one is forcing you to.

Either way, I feel sad that it’s being used for a practice steeped in Hindu spirituality.

Not the hall, it doesn’t have one, in the church space.

I find that incredibly narrow minded @SuperfluousHen .

Many asanas predate all forms of religion as we know them today by 1000 years. Most people who I know who do yoga do it for reasons other than spiritual.

If one wanted to look commonalities, Bhakti = loving devotion, normally understood to mean devotion to God, not exclusively a Hindu god.

Matthew 22:37 - Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

I’m incredibly glad that clergy have seen the need to adapt and allow churches to embrace communities and today’s activities.

I imagine she means the hall rather than the actual church. But anyway, what's wrong with yoga? I'm a Christian and I do yoga. God made bodies, after all, and yoga and eg. Qi Gong celebrate the Eternal and our place here between the earth and the sky, ancestors and descendants. It makes me more connected to my beliefs, not less. I've never understood why yoga is thought of as a threat.

And just out of curiosity what's wrong with yoga in church halls? If God created everything, that includes yoga, surely? It's supposed to be good for the soul isn't it? 😈🧙😈

Thought this was going to be about brides jilted at the altar and funeral punch ups. My bad.

“There is nothing wrong with a Yoga class taking place in a church hall.”

We will have to agree to disagree on that point.