Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I being guilty of unconscious bias?

128 replies

Normalguy22 · 24/10/2024 12:44

I see this a phase a lot in the media lately.

recently at my work we had a event for black history month. They basically said only black people can work in a certain public facing area on a set day. All white faces were excluded to another area.

They made a big fuss about it around diversity and celebrating black culture etc. Balloons, cake,flags etc etc

Now to me this seems to just reinforces stereotypes and division, surely it we shouldn’t highlight a group people by race, gender etc. I love working with all types of cultures and genders and believe we should all just stop talking about “differences” and get along.

Am I being guilty of unconscious bias or worse racism by seeing these events and racist and causing division?

OP posts:
Naunet · 24/10/2024 15:17

Babbahabba · 24/10/2024 14:26

Is it not designed to demonstrate how it feels to excluded etc? Make a point about apartheid, slavery etc?

Very few black people in this country are descended from slaves, we’re not America, but even if they were, do women not already know based on their own history? Do disabled people not know what it’s like? What about gays and lesbians or other racial minorities living here? It’s just nonsense.

I find it fascinating which minorities get these special events whilst others are ignored, makes it all feel like a very empty gesture. I’m fully onboard with true equality, but this isn’t it in my opinion.

GretchenWienersHair · 24/10/2024 15:16

Normalguy22 · 24/10/2024 14:47

I guess this comment is closest to my view.

Sorry I was a bit vague with my op as trying not to identify the company involved as it’s a major UK company.

again without being specific let’s say it was like a restaurant removing all their white staff from a branch and shipping in black people for a day,(from other branches) (It wasn’t this but quite close). What made it worse (imo) was the people that were removed still got paid for the inconvenience/loss or work for the day.
(So in my warped mind(!) I saw this as white folk being paid to enjoy a day off and black people put front and centre to promote the companies diversity agenda). That in my mind was just weird md borderline racist But then I’m not a HR person. 🤷🏻‍♂️

(So in my warped mind(!) I saw this as white folk being paid to enjoy a day off and black people put front and centre to promote the companies diversity agenda). That in my mind was just weird md borderline racist

I wouldn’t say it’s warped at all. I would be straight to HR if all the white people were being given a more relaxed day while I was put on show for the company’s (clearly non-existen) diversity initiative.

Foxblue · 24/10/2024 14:53

Not talking about these things openly is how we ended up here, in a world where we need to talk about these things openly in order to initiate change. When people talk about 'divisive' - we are already divided, and you don't repair a relationship by pretending problems don't exist, or past problems never happened. You have to discuss and work through them. And that's where we are at as a society, the 'working through' stage.

Lavenderblossoms · 24/10/2024 14:53

I think events like this should be encouraged to celebrate together. To learn together. Not just a tick box exercise where you wheel out just certain individuals for show.

Personally, I think that feels more insulting. It should be inclusive all of the time, not just one month.

However, I do believe that the celebrations should happen but in a way that a carnival is. The main events would celebrate the diversity but everyone is encouraged to join.

Our carnival in our city is brilliant as it does this wonderfully. Everyone gets together and has a great time, experiencing together.

Normalguy22 · 24/10/2024 14:47

GretchenWienersHair · 24/10/2024 14:17

It depends on my understanding of your point. If you’re saying that Black History Month should be ignored completely, yes YABU. But if you are saying putting black staff “on show” for the day as some sort of strange display of “diversity” is a racist act in itself, no YANBU.

I guess this comment is closest to my view.

Sorry I was a bit vague with my op as trying not to identify the company involved as it’s a major UK company.

again without being specific let’s say it was like a restaurant removing all their white staff from a branch and shipping in black people for a day,(from other branches) (It wasn’t this but quite close). What made it worse (imo) was the people that were removed still got paid for the inconvenience/loss or work for the day.
(So in my warped mind(!) I saw this as white folk being paid to enjoy a day off and black people put front and centre to promote the companies diversity agenda). That in my mind was just weird md borderline racist But then I’m not a HR person. 🤷🏻‍♂️

OP posts:
Frozensnow · 24/10/2024 14:46

Fairyliz · 24/10/2024 14:23

But what if some black people thought it was a great idea and some thought it was just a tick box exercise what then?
Are you assuming all black people would think the same?
It’s a bloody minefield op; the black people I know think it’s a big joke and the sort of thing drawn up by left wingers to show how good they are.

Yeah fair enough. I’m trying to say it matters more what the Black people in the company thought of it than the White people is all.

I don’t assume all Black people think exactly the same. Obviously.

Leopardprintisaneutral · 24/10/2024 14:43

Have you spoken to any of your Black colleagues to ask what they think? It sounds like tokenism to me (but I'm white). I hope the company shows that they value their Black employees the rest of the year. BTW, it's ok to acknowledge and celebrate differences - diversity makes life more interesting, and we can always learn from the experiences of people whose culture is different than our own.

Sausagenbacon · 24/10/2024 14:40

Interesting disparity between posts and voting.

steff13 · 24/10/2024 14:37

MiraculousLadybug · 24/10/2024 14:30

IDK it comes across more as performative to me because they want the Black people "on show" to the public.

This was my initial thought too. I am skeptical that an employer thought so deeply about it that they thought it would be a good idea to make white people feel excluded so that they would experience what black people experience. But I can be a bit of a skeptical person so I could be wrong about that.

I think it's interesting that your Black History Month is now; here in the US it's in February. I never knew that it was different.

Jessie1259 · 24/10/2024 14:35

Babbahabba · 24/10/2024 14:26

Is it not designed to demonstrate how it feels to excluded etc? Make a point about apartheid, slavery etc?

I don't think so because in this situation the white people are not feeling any disadvantage. I'm sure they really don't really care about not going into an area of the building - because why would they?

Jessie1259 · 24/10/2024 14:32

Surely it's just another silly event made up by the diversity and inclusion lot? Flags and cake seems to be their speciality, Sounds pretty primary school level to me, I'd be amazed if a black person came up with this.

MiraculousLadybug · 24/10/2024 14:30

Babbahabba · 24/10/2024 14:26

Is it not designed to demonstrate how it feels to excluded etc? Make a point about apartheid, slavery etc?

IDK it comes across more as performative to me because they want the Black people "on show" to the public.

MsMarch · 24/10/2024 14:28

Based on what you've said it sounds a bit odd but without more detail and contex it's hard to tell. BUT, overall, I think companies and society making an effort to actually acknowledge the challenges Black people face and the contributions they've made, is a good thing.

it's all very well say, "oh, I just think we should all get along" but considering that white men still dominate so many of the leadership positions in our organisations is a pretty clear sign that things are NOT all fine and happy for everyone.

Babbahabba · 24/10/2024 14:26

Is it not designed to demonstrate how it feels to excluded etc? Make a point about apartheid, slavery etc?

Seashellssanctuary · 24/10/2024 14:26

Normalguy22 · 24/10/2024 13:04

Oh maybe I misunderstood, I thought that as I thought this was divisive that I wasn’t understanding the “other side” of the argument and hence was being unconsciously bias? So confusing all this stuff!

'This stuff' is not confusing it's ignorance

MagpiePi · 24/10/2024 14:24

MiraculousLadybug · 24/10/2024 14:13

The event sounds a bit tokenistic, OP, that's why it wouldn't sit right with me. Ok great the company are centring Black people one day of the year. What are they doing the rest of the year to break down barriers to advancement and opportunity so Black employees can be on an equal footing with everyone else?

It would give me the rage if they decided to "use" my face to make the company look good for one day of BHM, splattered the virtue-signalling photos all over socials, then we all had to go back in our boxes for the rest of the year.

Edited

They can simply refer back to box that got ticked on that one day to show how inclusive they are. 🙄

Fairyliz · 24/10/2024 14:23

Frozensnow · 24/10/2024 13:54

I suppose it depends how the Black people in your work felt about it. If it was a White person who came up with the plan for the day as a token gesture then that’s shit. But if it was thought of by a Black person at your work and the Black people involved in it were happy with how it went, then great.

But what if some black people thought it was a great idea and some thought it was just a tick box exercise what then?
Are you assuming all black people would think the same?
It’s a bloody minefield op; the black people I know think it’s a big joke and the sort of thing drawn up by left wingers to show how good they are.

Hencewy · 24/10/2024 14:21

I think it’s utterly bizarre of the company, this is a prime example of tokenistic actions if they make no other efforts to create diversity in their workplace/ recruiting practises.

doodleschnoodle · 24/10/2024 14:18

UnderOverUp · 24/10/2024 13:59

As has been said, that’s not unconscious bias.

I think what you’re guilty of is naivety. The whole “I don’t see colour” thing has been shown over and over to be unhelpful at best.

Have you seen this image before? To me “why can’t we just get along” is giving everyone one box so they’re “equal”.

Yep.

* I* believe we should all just stop talking about “differences” and get along.

This is at best extremely naive and at worst just plain offensive. It's basically 'All lives matter'.

fashionqueen0123 · 24/10/2024 14:18

Sounds quite weird. Putting black people into public facing jobs- I mean are they the best jobs?! Aren’t the best roles usually given the corner office!

GretchenWienersHair · 24/10/2024 14:17

It depends on my understanding of your point. If you’re saying that Black History Month should be ignored completely, yes YABU. But if you are saying putting black staff “on show” for the day as some sort of strange display of “diversity” is a racist act in itself, no YANBU.

MartinCrieffsLemon · 24/10/2024 14:16

MrsSkylerWhite · 24/10/2024 13:02

redskydarknight
I'm wondering if excluding white people was part of the point of the day - to demonstrate how this feels“

This. Good idea. Most able bodied white people have no idea how it feels to be subjected to discrimination.

*straight, white, rich, able bodied men

Start changing one of those factors and you've probably experienced some kind of discrimination

Park24 · 24/10/2024 14:16

To be honest as a black woman I find it tokenistic and patronising. I don't think we should be othering either side, I can think of a million better ways than something like that. I don't want to be wheeled out for a political point.

MiraculousLadybug · 24/10/2024 14:13

The event sounds a bit tokenistic, OP, that's why it wouldn't sit right with me. Ok great the company are centring Black people one day of the year. What are they doing the rest of the year to break down barriers to advancement and opportunity so Black employees can be on an equal footing with everyone else?

It would give me the rage if they decided to "use" my face to make the company look good for one day of BHM, splattered the virtue-signalling photos all over socials, then we all had to go back in our boxes for the rest of the year.

UmbrellaEllaEllaElla · 24/10/2024 14:12

Seems very unprofessional.