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to think a lot of this “boy mum” stuff is a load of sexist nonsense?

292 replies

Cookiesandcream1989 · 23/10/2024 12:01

I’m always hearing people (on social media and in real life) talking about being “boy mums”, mostly saying how hard it is to raise boys as they are always being dangerous, loud, disruptive and disobedient, the tacit implication being that girls are quiet, do as they are told and that raising them is easy.

I have two girls, and I am not exaggerating when I say every single posts, video or anecdote of the supposedly “dangerous, madcap antics” “boy mums” have to deal with is something my girls do regularly. I’m thinking mostly of toddler/young children stuff. For example, I saw a video the other day of a child around 18 months trying to climb over a cardboard box and then tumbling off it (soft landing, no danger whatsoever), with a caption saying something like “see, this is what boy mums have to put up with!” and I’m just like… isn’t that just totally normal toddler behaviour for both sexes?? When my girls were that age I felt like they spent every minute of every day trying to climb up everything. My cousin posted one last week of her 3 year old splashing in some mud with a comment about being a “boy mum” and it was just such a massive eye-roll. As if little girl toddlers don’t love splashing around in mud every chance they get, too!

It's mostly just eye-rolling stuff, but it does actually sometimes annoy me, because I sometimes feel like people are assuming parents of girls have some sort of blessed easy life where we’re just sitting around getting our hair brushed, or relaxing while our perfect little angels play dollies, while “boy mums” are actually doing hard work, which is so far from the truth that it annoys me. My girls both come home from school/nursery covered in mud every day, they act like they are allergic to doing as they’re told, they climb, they jump, they playfight – and as far as I’ve seen of other girls, they are totally normal in this regard.

My in-laws especially are big on the whole “boys are loud and dangerous and misbehave and girls are quiet and obedient” thing (to the point where it comes up in conversation every time we see them🙄), and the weird thing is, our nephews on that side actually happen to be naturally very placid, introverted and timid, while it’s our girls who are climbing the walls, being rambunctious and rarely do as they’re told without a struggle. And yet still they go on about how boys are so “naughty” and hard work, and "girls don't misbehave" (verbatim quote from MIL!!!!) which I just find a bit insulting really, because if what they are saying is true, then it stands to reason that either we must have an easy life, or we must just be rubbish parents, because girls are supposed to be “naturally obedient” and yet we still have to put loads of work into getting ours to behave, so how hopeless must we be?

So, what’s the consensus? Is it true that boys are naturally naughtier and harder work, or is it sexist nonsense?

(For the sake of the poll, let’s stick to thinking about little children rather than older kids/teens.)

OP posts:
casapenguin · 23/10/2024 16:09

GeneralPeter · 23/10/2024 15:05

The thread is about children, so either the child results are significant/persuasive or they aren't. Looking at adult results shouldn't change that either way.

It might of course tell us something about nature vs nurture, but even that's ambiguous.

The paper notes that comparing child and adult results is difficult (because methodologies changes).

But putting that aside, would the fact that adult differences are greater than child differences tell us....

i) ...it's nurture. Societal expectation takes their toll over time. We start out pretty equal in nature, but society/nurture warps that as we integrate into society.
ii) ...it's nature. Children are impressionable, but as people grow in confidence and freedom, the innate gender differences show through.
iii) ...something else. Both nature and nurture factors change fundamentally between childhood and adulthood (e.g. around sex, coupling, child-rearing, adult (male) violence), explaining the differences in some other way.

The study you picked to illustrate your point that gender differences are observable in young children does show significant or persuasive results that gender differences are observable in young children.

OpalTree · 23/10/2024 15:48

Stereotypes change over time. I doubt many of us would like to live our lives based on stereotypes of women from Victorian times, even though those stereotypes would no doubt have been considered proven at the time. In a hundred years time people won't want to live according to stereotypes caused by modern socialisation of children.

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 23/10/2024 15:35

The sexism can be really damaging - the types that say girls are little flowers and boys are hurricanes will then chastise girls for getting muddy or being boisterous but excuse boys being destructive with “boys will be boys”. So the kids learn to behave based on what is expected of them.

My nephew was dirt phobic and gentle, my daughter is fearless, messy, unpredictable- we’re constantly trying to stop her skulling herself as she climbs everything she sees. When we pick her up from nursery she is always the muckiest. She loves dinosaurs, monsters, vehicles, butterflies and unicorns.

GeneralPeter · 23/10/2024 15:19

@AngelicKaty

all of them (boys and girls) said a pilot would be a man and a ballet dancer would be a woman. 🙄Where are they getting this rigid thinking from when they haven't even started school yet?

They're not wrong, though, are they?

US ballet dancers (2021): 78% women, 22% men.
US pilots and flight engineers (2022): 94% men, 6% women.

That of course doesn't mean that only men/women should do those jobs. And we should stress that to children (who can be rigid thinkers).

But it does mean they are well-evolved to spot patterns, and possibly even that there is something innate that just makes it feel more natural to them that a pilot would be a man / dancer would be a woman.

(for avoidance of doubt: by 'natural', I don't mean 'good', I just mean natural. Lots of good things, lots of bad things, and lots of mixed things can be natural).

bifurCAT · 23/10/2024 15:11

lol, a MN stereotype one.

It doesn't matter who you ask on MN, whether the comment is backed by scientific data from a billion sources, you'll ALWAYS get those MNers who will say "that's not true, mine is different".

Around 200 posts so far. Are we getting 200 disprovers out of 200 readers, or are we getting 200 disprovers out of 10,000 readers?

I'd love to see reliable data on this one.

godmum56 · 23/10/2024 15:09

There has been research on this both recent and much older. In the older research, women were given young children to hold and told that they were a boy or a girl. Regardless of their actual sex, the women described the babies they thought were girls as "fussy" or "restless" and attempted to settle and quiet them. When given different babies described as boys, the babies were described as "strong" and "active" and were encouraged to move and vocalise. The recent research was not as relevant, it was a TV thing about offering children toys. Toddlers who were described to the adult participants as boys were offered "boy toys" cars and construction stuff and the ones described as girls were offered dolls and cuddlies. Even more interesting, the children who chose the "wrong" things were redirected onto the "right" ones!

randomflumpsy · 23/10/2024 15:08

the7Vabo · 23/10/2024 15:08

Or the gut punch “a son is a son until he gets a wife!!!”

haha yes! a quote from the 1950s or whenever it was

the7Vabo · 23/10/2024 15:08

randomflumpsy · 23/10/2024 15:06

And, like I said in my OP, I take it particularly personally when people in my own life bang on about how much harder "boy mums" have it, thereby insinuating that me and DH have a much easier life as parents than they do, when I don't actually think we do at all

Yes, but the point people are making is that "boy mums" (and I have NEVER used that phrase or seen it on SM as it sounds stupid) get just as many irritating comments about how girls stay with you, girl clothes are so much nicer, the bond is better, boys dont give a shit about you blah blah blah.

Do you really think mums of boys dont get those annoying comments just as much? Ive seen plenty of comments on this site about "ew I would never want a boy" etc etc

The comments might be different but we get them too!

Or the gut punch “a son is a son until he gets a wife!!!”

randomflumpsy · 23/10/2024 15:06

And, like I said in my OP, I take it particularly personally when people in my own life bang on about how much harder "boy mums" have it, thereby insinuating that me and DH have a much easier life as parents than they do, when I don't actually think we do at all

Yes, but the point people are making is that "boy mums" (and I have NEVER used that phrase or seen it on SM as it sounds stupid) get just as many irritating comments about how girls stay with you, girl clothes are so much nicer, the bond is better, boys dont give a shit about you blah blah blah.

Do you really think mums of boys dont get those annoying comments just as much? Ive seen plenty of comments on this site about "ew I would never want a boy" etc etc

The comments might be different but we get them too!

the7Vabo · 23/10/2024 15:05

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 23/10/2024 15:00

Overall I think it’s nonsense

I think something does change in you once you have a boy as you can see some things from a male point of view.

And it’s almost like you go through school, childhood etc as a boy (through your child’s eyes) which is a new perspective.

But I think those with only boys and those with one/ some of each align in that respect, and it’s mums with only girls who have the different experience.

I find it odd when people align the “one of eachers” with those who solely have girls.

It depends what you mean. I think the Instagram “I’m a boy mum” etc thing is nonsense, but I don’t think it’s nonsense to say raising each is different.

GeneralPeter · 23/10/2024 15:05

casapenguin · 23/10/2024 14:35

From that study: The results of this study suggest that gender differences in the major temperament traits are smaller in young children than in samples of adults or adolescents.

so not the best one to pick to make that point on this thread.

The thread is about children, so either the child results are significant/persuasive or they aren't. Looking at adult results shouldn't change that either way.

It might of course tell us something about nature vs nurture, but even that's ambiguous.

The paper notes that comparing child and adult results is difficult (because methodologies changes).

But putting that aside, would the fact that adult differences are greater than child differences tell us....

i) ...it's nurture. Societal expectation takes their toll over time. We start out pretty equal in nature, but society/nurture warps that as we integrate into society.
ii) ...it's nature. Children are impressionable, but as people grow in confidence and freedom, the innate gender differences show through.
iii) ...something else. Both nature and nurture factors change fundamentally between childhood and adulthood (e.g. around sex, coupling, child-rearing, adult (male) violence), explaining the differences in some other way.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 23/10/2024 15:00

Overall I think it’s nonsense

I think something does change in you once you have a boy as you can see some things from a male point of view.

And it’s almost like you go through school, childhood etc as a boy (through your child’s eyes) which is a new perspective.

But I think those with only boys and those with one/ some of each align in that respect, and it’s mums with only girls who have the different experience.

I find it odd when people align the “one of eachers” with those who solely have girls.

5128gap · 23/10/2024 14:56

I'm a mum of both. The experience is different when they're adults because societal norms decree it so. If you're in any doubt try posting on here that you plan to treat your daughter to a city break while her DH stays behind with the children. Then try it again substituting son for daughter.

AngelicKaty · 23/10/2024 14:54

It's sexist nonsense which pigeon-holes children and sets expectations of them that they shouldn't feel obliged to meet - it also limits their opportunities.
I don't know if you ever watched Channel 4's documentary series "The Secret Lives of 4 year olds" (they also did 5, 6 and 7 year olds). It was a fascinating series that observed a whole range of young behaviour (and also showed how individual each of us is!). From memory, one of the things they did was to ask a group of 4 year olds who did different jobs: all of them (boys and girls) said a pilot would be a man and a ballet dancer would be a woman. 🙄Where are they getting this rigid thinking from when they haven't even started school yet?
It's the same with the sexist nonsense you're talking about. So girls are led to believe from a very young age that they should be compliant and well-behaved like "nice little girls" and boys can be adventurous (climbing trees and getting dirty).
I agree with you 100% OP - it would infuriate me too.

OpalTree · 23/10/2024 14:52

The "teen girls are all horrendous" is just as annoying a sexist stereotype as "all little boys are nightmares" is!

Cookiesandcream1989 · 23/10/2024 14:49

the7Vabo · 23/10/2024 14:41

Do you think some of your reaction OP is because on some level you mind not having a boy? I think most of your reaction is understandable, but you seem very triggered and it comes across a bit my girls are SO WIlD ie just as good as a boy.

I think aggressive boy/girl stereotypes are tiresome but boys and girls are different in the same way as men and women are different. I don’t think that’s controversial. But I do also think a lot of things come down to individual personalities.

While I think gender reveals are daft, people are interested in gender because parenting a boy and parenting a girl is a different experience. Obviously parenting different children is different too.

Er... what?! lol I have no idea how you have reached that conclusion from anything I have said... The reason it irritates me is because from what I've seen in my own life, the stereotypes just aren't true.

And, like I said in my OP, I take it particularly personally when people in my own life bang on about how much harder "boy mums" have it, thereby insinuating that me and DH have a much easier life as parents than they do, when I don't actually think we do at all.

I am delighted to have my girls, and I would have been delighted to have boys too (given that I personally believe that the way they turn out is more down to their own individual personalities and the way they are raised than their sex).

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 23/10/2024 14:49

What fresh hell is this?

Boy Mums?

Yeah girls and boys can be different but 'Boy Mums'. Meh.

housethatbuiltme · 23/10/2024 14:48

I have 2 boys and a girl, all 3 are wildly different and my 'easiest' child by far is one of the boys.

DD is the only one to ever have tantrums.

Its all personality in the end.

I have noticed parents at school whose boys run riot always shrug it off as 'boys will be boys' like we are just meant to ignore it instead of actually parenting them and so there probably is a sexist attitude some people have.

I will say many people I know insist teen girl (especially sisters) can be the worst for drama and fighting. I know my mam use to fight like a banshee with her close age sister (but never with her younger baby sister) where as most the brothers I know have very little drama. Of course some sisters might be loving best friends though.

justusandthecat · 23/10/2024 14:47

I have one of each. They are both equally loud, messy and constantly looking for new ways to injure themselves. My daughter is the only one who has had us in A&E though. She assures me that was her brothers fault though, apparently it was his idea to forward roll down the stairs she just went along with it. Not sure I believe her.
Once they get a bit older obviously we will have to teach them things that are specific to their sex but for now we are just trying to keep them in one piece and get them out of the house on time every now and then.

OpalTree · 23/10/2024 14:47

Noseybookworm · 23/10/2024 14:18

I only have boys but I think the whole boys are harder work thing is rubbish! None of my boys have been reckless, dangerous or more badly behaved than my friend's daughters and are all kind, thoughtful and generally pretty easygoing. I am the youngest of 3 girls and I can tell you our teenage fights were epic and much more vicious than anything my boys have ever done 😂

Whereas my 20 and 17 year old girls have been kind, thoughtful and easy going teenagers. Just shows they are all different and many don't conform to the stereotype.

Scottishskifun · 23/10/2024 14:44

I think it's swings and roundabouts!
Some girls can be high energy, loud etc and some boys can be quiet and happily sit.

I have 2 DS's so very firmly a boy mum - they aren't rude or obnoxious and I pull them up on any bad behaviour immediately. I dont tolerate fighting or play fighting. They are very high energy and seem to need more running off then friends with girls but this could just be personality! They both hate mud but will climb anything in sight.

TenWeeCaramelJoeys · 23/10/2024 14:42

I have two boys. Neither of them is 'typical' in terms of the male stereotype. My eldest is the gentlest, least boisterous person I know. My youngest is also a gentle soul, perhaps a bit more physical than his brother, but still a quiet child and very sensitive. Neither of them was ever in trouble at school or anywhere else. I suppose they're both a bit geeky😆

the7Vabo · 23/10/2024 14:41

Cookiesandcream1989 · 23/10/2024 14:22

Same - me and my sister had the neighbours knocking on the door asking if they should call the police once 😳😳😳

Do you think some of your reaction OP is because on some level you mind not having a boy? I think most of your reaction is understandable, but you seem very triggered and it comes across a bit my girls are SO WIlD ie just as good as a boy.

I think aggressive boy/girl stereotypes are tiresome but boys and girls are different in the same way as men and women are different. I don’t think that’s controversial. But I do also think a lot of things come down to individual personalities.

While I think gender reveals are daft, people are interested in gender because parenting a boy and parenting a girl is a different experience. Obviously parenting different children is different too.

Superworm24 · 23/10/2024 14:40

I don't know about the whole "boy mum" thing. But I have family members who regularly tell me how much easier it is to raise boys. But that's due to my family's sexist expectations.

DiscoDragon · 23/10/2024 14:39

I have one of each. My daughter is (and always has been) the more difficult of the two. She has always been impulsive and extremely opposed to doing anything that is asked of her. She has always been obnoxiously loud and full-on.

My son, who has been diagnosed as having autism and ADHD has always been much easier to deal with. He is high energy but he absolutely hates getting into any kind of trouble. When he is engaged with something he enjoys he can be quiet for hours on end, he's also never liked getting dirty!

I grew up with 2 brothers, I was the quiet and (mostly well-behaved!) one and they were the ones climbing everything and getting into all kinds of scrapes and trouble!