The Yorkshire Ripper question?

I didn't think you were, hence the question!

Please stop calling him "The Ripper" or variations thereof!

Except in real life, "clear cases" don't really exist. All you have is people who have been convicted by a fallible jury (which has all the prejudices and shortcomings of the general population), after having been investigated by a fallible police force.

Miscarriages of justice happen regularly, and there will always be some people who are wrongly convicted. Even with a confession 100% certainty is rarely possible - because innocent people do confess.

It’s not being superior to be factual. You're the one who didn’t stop to actually think before firing off online. Get MNHQ to edit the post if you don’t like people pointing it out.

No, it's 11 million.

The death penalty is barbaric and shouldn't be brought back.

I agree with those who draw attention to the far too frequent miscarriages of justice that can lead to convicted murderers being released on review of their case. If you hang the person, there's no going back and the state sanctioned murder is on all of our consciences, as a nation. Some of the most vociferous opponents of the death penalty are lawyers and judges who are aware of the unnerving incidence of miscarriages of justice.

Regarding the money spent to keep the Ripper in prison, the UK government wastes vast sums of money on many truly horrible and inhumane projects. Doing what's needed to avoid bringing back the death penalty is one of its more sensible decisions.

don't be soft. None of my posts on this thread have indicated in the slightest possible way that i am pro death penalty.

My comment was related to the cost. I merely pointed out that we are so used to people in the US being on death row for 30 years that we forget that some countries literally drag them out and kill them right from the dock.

There is absolutely nothing in my post to suggest that either of those scenarios is ok.

What should they do in unclear cases?

That is your definition and you are entitled to that but it is not the only definition regarding someone who values human life.

we both read the Mailonline today then lol

"During the 30 years the infamous killer spent at Broadmoor and is believed to have cost the taxpayer a total of £11 billion."

they deffo said billion. I did assume it was bullshit or wrong but that's where that info has come from

My dad was questioned about this....as he had a Geordie accent, looked similar and lived in the area....so no I do not support hanging someone as that could've been my dad being hanged for a crime he didn't commit.

This feels like when DH has been at work and spent his lunch break reading the DM/talking to some of his colleagues - and comes home spouting all sorts of crap as 'fact'. "We've dumbed down life-sentences!" "we paid 11 billion trillion for his prison time!"

Timothy Evans from Merthyr Tydfil was hanged on 9 March 1950 after being falsely convicted of the murder of his daughter at their flat in Rillington Place in London's Notting Hill district. During his trial, he accused his downstairs neighbour John Christie, the chief prosecutor's witness, of committing the murder. Three years after Timothy’s execution, John Christie was found to be a serial killer who had killed six women in the same house. A royal pardon was eventually granted in 1966. The case generated much controversy and debate, and along with those of Derek Bentley and Ruth Ellis, played a major role in the abolition of capital punishment in England and Wales.

https://criminology.research.southwales.ac.uk/criminology-blog/tragic-life-and-death-timothy-evans/

Public opinion at time was he was guilty.

When we had the black code in Georgian times juries would refuse to convict as they knew they were likely guilty but didn't want them to hang.

11 million to not have state executions - with the inevitable innocents caught up in very human process - while I don't like it does actually seem worth it.

How can you give justice to families of his victims?

Well at least he didn't have to worry about losing his pension hearing allowance.
Photo says it all. Too many do gooders. In a clear case like this they should get the death sentence.

Total derail, but I instantly thought of this!

Condoning/supporting prison rape does not speak well of a person, in my view.

And I speak as someone whose rapist was convicted and sent to prison.

This shit was happening when we had the death penalty.
Although unlikely to happen quite like that now, there are far too many opportunities for errors to occur.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1525505017304833#:~:text=Derek%20Bentley%20had%20epilepsy%20and,his%20case%20was%20finally%20quashed.

As far as I am aware the states in the US where they do have the death penalty do not use the gallows or a firing squad. They execute by using a lethal injection and I seem to recall that there have been difficulties in obtaining the drugs that are used which has delayed executions.

Are those countries that the UK should be aspiring to emulate?

You're surely not suggesting that the death penalty might be okay because it can be delivered cheaply with minimal admin and faff if we deny the convicted any right of appeal?

Only because he confessed! I was in my early 20s when he was caught and it was a complete fluke. If he hadn't admitted when first questioned that he'd done it, they did not have the forensic evidence then to prove it was him.

The police completely ballsed up the investigation for years, resulting in more women dying than if they'd got their shite together, stopped being so feckin' misogynist, investigated properly and joined up the dots. The wild goose chase they went on following the fake "I'm Jack" tape was embarrassing.

I hope you pay more attention to the facts if you're ever on jury service OP.

Of course not, and civilised is what we should aspire to. But saying we do live in one is just not true. We have far to go.

The term civilised is subjective, though.

Society, government, politics - many actions under these terms I would not consider civilised. Such as how we can justify war and the killing or those who we are at war with. But then we are against killing those who have committed crimes. How we are speciesist and don't think the mass killing of animals for food is particularly bad, but the mass killing of people is.

Not having the death penalty might arguably go towards making us more civilised. But it's does not necessarily make us more civilised when we are still engaging in things that, I believe, are on par with this act.

he murdered some prostitutes and the police CBA to investigate properly. Then he murdered a woman who wasn't a prostitute. The right kind of victim. Then they started to slowly wake up.

Meanwhile living in Sheffield and wanting to go out as a young woman was a nightmare. As was trying to earn your living as a prostitute, i guess. If any more prostitutes had been murdered (I can't remember now) it would have "been their own fault"

About as misogynistic as it gets.