Police officer cleared

The Tories constantly talk tough on crime but have, time and again, proved they are not willing to fund that fight.

However, the defund the police narrative has not attached itself to the left, it's the left who have adopted and promoted it. It comes from a long-established tenet of Marxism whereby regular criminals are seen as products and victims of class oppression whereas political criminals are the true enemy who deserve no mercy.

I sit somewhere in the middle. I believe that criminals are not born but made and we should do all we can to prevent people entering a life of crime but that once someone has reached a certain level of criminality it is extremely difficult to rehabilitate them and the damage they can do to others while attempting to change them is not worth the cost to society. Criminals can commit hundreds of crimes and cause misery to entire communities before they even get a brief whiff of punishment. Chris Kaba had obviously been indulged by his family and the system to the point where he felt invincible enough to get away with murder.

Well said, @ClareBlue

I'm often critical of the Met, especially when it comes to their treatment of women, but goodness, in this case it seems astonishing that they are the bad guys.

Interesting that the only person having to go before a Court and risk a life sentence is the person putting their life on the line to protect the community from violence and criminality. Not the family that raised a violent gang member who used violence to resolve disputes, or the judiciary who impose sentences that neither detered reoffending or keeps offenders off the streets, or all those early intevention setvices we pay for, or the probation service after previous crimes, or government Ministers who's policy enable offenders to be released early or not imprisoned in the first place, or NGOs who make every excuse possible to ensure their existence and victim mentality in communities or the community who big up criminality and violence and then blame others for violence and criminality in their communities.
Serious, who would want to put their lives on the line for this as a police officer.

You think that shooting someone's tyres out is a guarantee of stopping them? Are you going to run around to get all four of them? I've seen footage where stingers have been deployed and the driver has carried on driving with the burst tyres flying off, leaving just the wheel rims in contact with the road.

Again, black on black crime does not exist so your point is irrelevant. It’s standard crime and should be viewed as much.

I think the reason people talk so much about black on black crime is because listening to the people who like to remind us that 'black lives matter' you could be forgiven for thinking that white people (or the police) are the biggest threat to the safety of black people in this country. But that's simply not true, is it?

Those people making a fuss about the George Floyds and Chris Kabas and Mark Duggans of this world only ever seem to notice or care when the perpetrators are white and/or the police. It's as if all the violence against black people perpetrated by other black people (which is to say the vast majority of it) is simply ignored when 'Black Lives Matter.'

Am totally stunned now we have heard a lot more about him why his family were given air time outside the Old Bailey to play the sympathy oh it is a shame blah, blah, blah...why was this allowed??

They knew his background it is quite unbelievable we gave them air time to stir up what could have been a lot of trouble...it is shocking!! They purposely tried to hide the reality about him and wanted it all kept quiet...shameful and beggars belief....

I notice that all of the protestors outside the court (which didn’t include the family, they were photographed separately) waving Socialist Worker "BLM" placards were white. Just the usual bunch of trustafarians.

I don’t know who owned it, but I know who paid for it, all those kids buying their £10.00 wraps from Kaba and his drug running gang. Takes a lot of £10.00 wraps to pay for a car worth over £70,000.

Which sounds reasonable, until you think it through and realise that if a suspect was armed , then shooting the tyres out would put police and civilians in immediate danger.

I was listening to a firearms officer on the radio the other day. He said that most armed police officers never have to use their weapons, I think he said there had been four police shootings in the last ten years in the met although armed officers had been called to thousands of incidents. I think that shows a remarkable level of training and restraint. But having said that, people, ie criminals, need to realise that if officers do use their weapons they are not just going to be shooting to wound or disable, they are shooting to stop, and that means fatalities are a possible, and likely, outcome.

The information that has come out about Kaba in the last couple of days show that he:had no issues with shooting without regard to public safety ie in a crowded nightclub, or in the street . I imagine that had he had a weapon that night there is a distinct possibility that he would have used it. The car had been flagged as involved in a shooting, it would be a reasonable assumption that the person driving it could have been armed. He wasn’t armed on that occasion, but given the situation and the information, who would want to call the odds on that?

I've never understood how the 'defund the police' narrative got attached to the left in the UK . The only people who have defunded the police have been the Tories. How have they successfully managed to tar the left with this?

I'm wondering who actually owned the vehicle. Just as an aside. I mean I don't know anyone who could buy an Audi Q8. I don't have rich friends. And I wonder where it will end up.

If I was a Met police officer I'd feel utterly betrayed and unsupported by Khan.

After the initial shooting.
The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: “My thoughts are with Chris Kaba’s family, friends and loved ones today. Chris had his whole life ahead of him and his death has had a huge impact on Londoners, and in particular Black Londoners, with anger, pain and fear felt across communities, along with a desire for change and justice.

“It was vital that the IOPC fully investigated all the evidence before making a decision, and now that they have referred this case to the CPS, I hope it will be considered as swiftly as possible.”

Post acquittal

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: “I respect the decision made by the jury today following a full examination of a large amount of evidence – including video from the incident.

“In London, we police by consent. When anyone loses their life following contact with the police, it's important that it is properly and thoroughly investigated, which is what’s happened in this case.

“Firearms officers work under the most extraordinary pressure, carrying with them unique responsibilities and often putting themselves in harm’s way to protect others.

“I understand the impact Chris Kaba’s death has had on London’s communities and the anger, pain and fear it has caused. I send my heartfelt sympathies to Chris Kaba’s family, friends and the wider community once again.

“There’s clearly still a wider lack of trust in the police, particularly within the Black community, that needs to be addressed. As Mayor, I will continue to work with the Government to support and hold the Metropolitan Police to account to ensure any lessons are learnt and the Met commands the trust of all Londoners as we build a safer London for everyone.”

What a fucking slime ball.

His family pushed for a gagging order on the press regarding Chris's character and activities. They then portrayed him as a lovely man with big hopes for the future - the aspiring architect, expectant father, blah blah. They're utterly shameless and cynical. Kaba shot someone days before in a crowded public space, he could have killed anyone - how profoundly reckless He was told to get out of the car numerous times by armed police and yet he tried to ram them off the road. To say that he was unarmed is wrong. He was armed with a multi-tonne car.

You have to wonder at the agenda exposed by this episode. Lefty activists in the CPS, an ideologue Mayor, the BLM lurking behind Justice for Chris Kaba, a supine media.

Shame on Sadiq Khan for seeking to weaponise this situation, who lied about him being an innocent man and vilified the police for doing their job.

We live in an age where the loudest voices and the most sensationalist voices get heard. Polling data in America around the time that the idea of defunding or abolishing the police was gaining traction showed that it was not a popular concept among black working class people because they are disproportionately the victims of crime.

It's stories like that of Chris Kaba and the political and media narrative around it that play into the hands of Donald Trump and the Reform Party. Scolding people for their reasonable opinions (that it is acceptable for the police to shoot an extremely violent career criminal while he is in the process of using his vehicle as a deadly weapon) and trying to shame people into adopting views that go against the public good only serves to turn those people away from mainstream politics. People at the centre of politics need to stop their ground being hijacked by those with loud but fringe views.

But that’s not what happened, is it? Instead of acknowledging you were wrong you suggested I read your other posts, which were basically arguments with other posters 😂

@@elprup watch X, I think the contents of that letter might break today. From what I've read, the gist is that the jurors were hugely critical of the fact that the case was brought at all.

Agreed. With so much tension around this case you'd think they'd me more responsible in their reporting, and I suspect the BBC are far from the worst.

Taking one excerpt from the article:

On Croydon High Street, Maureen Patterson, 68, said she was "shocked at the verdict".
"I hear what the policeman had to say, that he felt that he and his colleagues were in danger, but the thing is he shot him in the head," she said.
She added Mr Kaba's history did not make her feel differently, because "at the time the police didn't know - they were just going after the car".
"He could have shot the tyres, he could have shot anything else, but he shot to kill."

What relevance is the opinion of some random pensioner on the high street? Especially when it is littered with factually inaccurate nonsense that the wider article makes no attempt to fact check?

"at the time the police didn't know - they were just going after the car". Yes, but they were going after the car specifically because it had been identified as being used in a criminal shooting the day before. No, they did not know for sure and certain that the occupant was armed but on the balance of probabilities it was very much a possibility that they had to consider - that's why multiple armed police were tasked and not just a couple of unarmed PCs. Even then, the officer didn't just shoot because the car had been flagged, he shot in response to the actions of the driver, namely that he tried to evade arrest by using his vehicle as a weapon, thus presenting an immediate threat to the lives of the officers present.

"He shot him in the head". Big effing deal. Firearms Officers are trained first and foremost to take a "conventional shot", that is to aim at the central body mass (upper torso) where the majority of critical organs are located. A successful conventional shot is very likely to prove fatal and that is the intention. Where a conventional shot is not possible/practical (i.e. in this case where the target's torso is at least partially protected by the structure of the vehicle, steering wheel etc) then a head shot (if possible) is the recommended alternative. The officer did what he was trained to do and that training is based on hard science and decades of operational experience, not the ramblings of some Croydon shopper.

"He could have shot the tyres". No, he shouldn't have. He had made the decision that the individual in the car represented an immediate threat to the lives of his colleagues and the wider public. He has to defend that decision but having made it, shooting the tyres would have been a ridiculous option to consider. First and foremost, except in very specific circumstances, our police are are armed with (in layman's terms) fairly soft rounds. As they are operating in urban environments, they do not want rounds passing right through their target, or walls etc, and injuring/killing someone else. Car tyres are very tough. The most likely outcome of shooting at the tire would have been a still intact tyre and a flattened round ricocheting off, still with enough energy to maim or kill someone in the near vicinity (such as one of the many officers surrounding the vehicle). Even if he had managed to shoot out tyres, that would not have mitigated the threat he was concerned with.

"...but he shot to kill". There is no shoot-to-kill versus shoot-to-wound debate to be had. When a firearms officer discharges their weapon at an individual they have made a conscious decision to use lethal force. The death of the target is the presumed outcome. The only discussion that really needs to be had is whether lethal force was justified in the circumstances or not.

Many jump on the bandwagon.

Many speak when they have no clue about the situation or another agenda, from Greenwich university talking about him as a promising architect (ha ha) to the shit spoken by khan, Corbyn and others. It’s a disgrace.

Yes.

@Nolongera I just read that article and it actually highlights the biggest issue. The media constantly promote people who 'speak for the community' except they do not. The 'black' community does not exist as one united group, it never has. The vast majority are not traumatised by the Kaba case. All I will say is that this vigil had 150 people max. The vigil for Elianne Andam closed roads and hundreds gathered.

A larger portion of the 'black' community want an end to knife/gang related crime, fully understand that if you are a criminal (regardless of skin colour) soon or later you will encounter the police but also understand that there are historic issues with police enforcement and want change.

Have the family said anything since his criminality became public?

In fairness to people in the community not speaking out against the criminal gangs like CKs that terrorise them, it's probably just to dangerous for them to do so. They can safely criticise the police and 'society' that they say does not value them. Can you imagine anyone of them speaking out and publicly naming gang members like CK though, they'd be dead. They would be putting lives of their kids at risk as well. Much easier and safer to criticise, probably anyone else in the entire world that the people who are a real danger to them and their children and really don't value them.

I think the officer should be compensated for the unnecessary prosecution either from public funds or by a public collection organised by a charity and receive a medal. All firearms officers should hand in their weapons until officers are protected from unnecessary prosecutions.