To say no to covid vaccine for DS?

She did actually say what I stated that she said. I’m not making anything up. I’m simply pointing out that distrust grew and why.

I know what I did thanks. I read what I could find at the time and looked for peer reviewed medical data, not anything in the press. I also spoke to family members working in both the NHS and medical research. I am very happy with my decision not to let this vaccine anywhere near my children. Everyone must do what they think is best.

This is so incredibly unlikely statistically that I find it hard to believe, I'm sorry.

Tethered Cord Syndrome has been associated with Covid-19* I suspect this is a much higher risk than from the vaccine. Given the huge amount of data we have from vast numbers of people.

If we were to believe the Daily Mail comments section then every other person we meet would be a scrounging illegal immigrant who is simultaneously taking our jobs. London would have the highest crime rates in the country and would be being run under sharia law. Wearing a mask would cause cancer, unless you're wearing it while setting fire to hotels housing migrants and the BBC would be run by communists. Oh, and everyone from an ethic background lives on benefits in a mansion.

*pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7981271/

@Clarabell77 I was the poster earlier who said I have experience in this area, I've only just had a chance to catch up. I have a degree in medical sciences which included the study of infectious diseases, immunology and public health. I'm not an expert by any stretch but I do have knowledge.

Children are generally at lower risk of severe covid symptoms, but children with asthma are more at risk of complications and hospital admissions:

'the risk of admission to hospital with COVID-19 is increased in children with a diagnosis of asthma in their primary care records, particularly when they have previously been admitted to hospital with asthma (HR 6·40 [95% CI 3·27–12·53]) or have required two or more courses of oral corticosteroids (3·53 [1·87–6·67]) in the 24 months before the study start date (March 1, 2020).6' https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00509-9/fulltext

Children with asthma also have a higher risk of developing long covid than children without respiratory conditions:

We found that allergic diseases in children were also associated with a higher risk of long Covid. This is in agreement with adult studies from Russia [2] and the UK [21] reporting asthma to be associated with development of long Covid. Recent data suggested that COVID-19 consequences may be linked with the mast cell activation syndrome [25*] and the Th-2 biased immunological response in children with allergic diseases may be responsible for an increased risk of long-term consequences from the infection.

*The author defines allergic diseases as the presence of asthma, allergic rhinitis, eczema or food allergy.
https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/early/2021/06/10/13993003.01341-2021

There's evidence that covid can trigger autoimmune diseases https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9969758/#s0200. Other viral infections can do this too, but covid is likely to trigger a bigger, more complex immune response than a common cold for example, which increases the risk. There is also an interesting phenomenon known as 'molecular mimicry'. Many SARS-Cov-2 antigens are similar in shape/structure to human antigens. This can sometimes confuse the body and lead it to mistake its own antigens for viral 'invader' ones, in which case the body might begin to attack its own tissues. molecular mimicry between SARS-CoV-2 and human antigens occurs in a significant quantity. The vaccine can also potentially do this, but the risk is extremely low in comparison.

You're obviously already aware of the risks associated with asthma and chest infections. The airway inflammation in asthma makes the lungs more vulnerable to infections, so if you add Covid on top of that and he develops respiratory symptoms, there's potentially a risk of more severe asthma symptoms, bacterial infections, complications etc.

I would also add that every vaccine comes with risks, just as every medication comes with risks. Have a read of the leaflet that comes with your ibuprofen.

I hope that's helped a bit.

in regards to being more sick from the vaccine than the illness - that is entirely how vaccines work? They train your immune system - so you’ve reacted to the vaccine, your immune system is prepared because it’s experienced it before , and then when you catch it - your response is less severe.

the ‘ the vaccine worked as it was designed so I’m not doing it again’ argument is baffling to me!

the sheer amount of privilege on this thread is unreal - it’s wonderful so many people are in the privileged position that they can miss as much work as they need if they or their children get unwell, have child care if one child ended up in hospital - but it seems like people just totally lack the comprehension that is not the case for many of us.

I've recently completed consent for my DCs to have their annual flu spray.

DS1 is invited to have the Covid vaccine due to being autistic. I decline. Autism covers a huge range of development and health outcomes. As a healthy teenager in better than average health compared to his NT peers, at a personal level I don't see an elevated health risk to him at a personal level. The system generating the invitation letters does not know DS at a personal level to know the difference between a typical teenager and one whose developmental needs significantly affects their physical health.

DS2 is asthmatic and not invited to date. His asthma is usually well controlled although has escalated after illness. I know of twice that he's tested positive for Covid, but he hasn't actually been ill with it. If he struggled more with the impacts of respiritory illness, then I might be more persuadable of the benefits to him.

My trust in Covid vaccines has never really recovered from the early days when the discussion about them was so toxic. There were vaccine injuries, and like so many aspects of the Covid response, it became impossible to have reasonable discussion about negative impacts alongside the benefits.

I did have the standard doses in 2021, and ended up more ill from the vaccines than the twice I've had the actual illness. I know someone whose immune response shortly after their vaccine ended up atacking their nervous system and ended up in ICU for 3 months, off work for over a year and has had to relearn basic functions such as walking again. That is a highly unusual effect but it is associated with vaccine injury, and his syndrome was more prevelant than usual in 2021. I don't expect another 1:1,000,000 reaction, but it still doesn't fill me with confidence either.

At a population level, the vaccines had a use in 2021 of a generally lower risk of exposing the population's immune system to Covid, but with our family's state of health and risk factors, the risk of serious illness is low, and our immune systems have coped with the illness. Therefore the benefit to us is on the lower side.

I'm not saying never. If the state of the DC's health changes, I'm happy to reassess. The DCs are also at an age where their opinion matters.

There's risk to every decision. We take risks constantly because we're confident that the benefits of the action (or inaction) outweigh their risk. Neither having the vaccine nor having the illness is risk-free. For many people invited, their risk/ benefit profile is far more clear. It's also not a vaccine that dramatically cuts the chance of illness, just potentially the risk of more serious illness.

The flu vaccine I feel differently about as it's been established for many more years and hasn't made us more ill than the illness it protects us from. We haven't had negative experiences of it to change our habits of accepting it.

Or smallpox!

Never forget that you can pass Covid from one person to the next, especially if you aren't vaccinated. Also, Covid is still evolving. It seems a small price to pay to keep it at bay from those of us who could be badly affected.

Granted the government did mess up big time with PPE and there was skull duggery going on - but working in the field myself, I cannot bring myself to believe that it's all a big con. I know scientists who are involved in the research/vaccine development and I fully 100% trust their motives.

Vaccines have made the world a much safer place, particularly for children and poorer nations - and its no coincidence that all the conspiracy theories only happended after the covid vaccine and I suspect because of the availability of nonsence on the internet.

Can you imagine how much more damage and deaths would have occurred if Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent MMR research had happened more recently - tik tok would have imploded!

Sadly this is i great point, @Longma

Many PPs focussed on the risks of the vaccine ate ignoring the point you and others are making, that Covid itself confers the same risks. Emerging research is showing that the risks for Covid tend to be more serious.

I am sorry for everyone with a health outcome linked to either Covid or, possibly, a vaccine

I think by "trawling round at the end of the day" you are referring to the peer vaccination programme in hospitals where the vaccinators visit the wards to offer the staff the vaccines without them needing to leave the ward/unit as it can be difficult for them to get away. Quite shocking that you work in a hospital but have zero understanding of how keeping front line staff safe works.

If your child has no underlying health conditions and no-one in their close contacts is vulnerable, I suggest you speak to your GP practice with regards to why your child might be on the eligible list. Public Health don't magic up phone numbers and addresses - they have to be given them by GP lists or schools etc (if there is an outbreak of something).

Eloquently argued

Are you saying that nobody on MN ever says that?
And/Or that flu is a single homogeneous virus that affects everybody with equal severity?
And/Or that flu is a really rare disease that you might expect to catch only once in twenty/thirty/forty years?

You clearly did NOT do any research.

No - the standard vaccine development timeline might be 5-10 years but that doesn't mean we have 5-10 years of clinical efficacy and safety data. It can take years to recruit enough volunteers for phase 3 studies.
The covid vaccines were brought to market so quickly because of lot of reasons - ease of recruitment, trial phases being combined, expedited approval process because, well, pandemic. Scientists and big bad pharma across the world worked together and did something absolutely freaking incredible.

Sorry @Nanny0gg my screenshot didn’t upload

From NHS Scotland, yes flu can cause tonsillitis

Research the risks (myocarditis for example)after having COVID
Then allow it.

I am sorry your friend died, but it was never proved whether or not the vaccine killed him if I recall correctly.

@Clocloxx This statistic must be weighed against the risk of myocarditis from Covid itself. More importantly, it must be weighed against the risk that the myocarditis will become serious or have long lasting effects.

Above I referenced a study from J Amer Med Association, a leading peer reviewed journal, from 26 Aug 2024 showing that the vaccine risks are less than the risks from Covid itself, just on this measure. Never mind all the other long term impacts of Covid on the heart and other organs

@Clarabell77

unfortunately that doesn't mean next time he gets it, it will be the same (mild & quick recovery).

But equally important is that people are reassuring its safety when there is no certainty of this? My point is that its up to the individual (and we should give everyone this benefit) to decipher what is ‘misinformation’ vs well researched facts and non biased statistics.

look into the European sports leagues all the Casualties they have had since the vaccine roll out

There have always been cases of sudden cardiac death in sports people, if that is what you mean. It is not a new phenomenon. I think there was a campaign for screening well before Covid came along.

https://www.c-r-y.org.uk/save-our-athletes/

Not when myocarditis was the most reported post-COVID19 vaccination cardiac event, you're likely hood of developing it is 5.7 per 100 000 individuals after mRNA vaccine (from a Danish study) also what was scare mongering was covid the government pushed these vacancies on to people who did not need one, the risks of the vaccines are higer then covid itself, and not everyone recovers either from myocarditis look into the European sports leagues all the Casualties they have had since the vaccine roll out. Also I have seen first hand on what a covid vaccine has done to a family friend Roy butler. The risks are not rare and people should be fully informed especially before they put it in their children.