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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this sexist?

66 replies

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 07:01

I work for a small but very successful building contractor. I cover everything office based, all accounting, logistics, transport, HR - a very varied role. I am also the only female in the firm. This is relevant.

I’m regularly required on site for progress reports and client meetings. I have a great relationship with the team of builders. We banter but it’s respectful. One thing that irritates me, one or two of the team usually ask me if I’ve brought the biscuits/ice creams when I visit sites.

Full disclosure - for client meetings I usually organise refreshments and make the tea for the meeting attendees, ie client, architect, my boss, etc. The building team don’t attend. I’m very happy to do this as part of my role.

AIBU to feel the comments from the team are sexist and they wouldn’t say this if a man was in my role?

OP posts:
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PinkArt · 20/10/2024 14:17

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:33

Thanks. I am senior, second to the Director. I deal with all of the finance, contracts, health and safety, customer service. As a woman I also make tea for meetings. There’s less senior men attend the meetings but I make the tea.

This sounds like a much more obvious bit of workplace sexism but it's one you can take ownership of given your seniority. Delegate the tea making to your junior colleagues. Unless for some reason their penises render them incapable of boiling a kettle.

Idontjetwashthefucker · 20/10/2024 14:05

DelicateSoundOfEchos · 20/10/2024 09:58

It's nothing to do with you being a woman or meetings.

The general expectation is that office people bring goodies when they visit site. It stems from the perception of office people having tea and biscuits the whole day long, not from you being a woman. It's rare for women to visit my sites, but we have male visitors frequently who are always asked in jest when they're getting the donuts out or something similar.

Exactly this, I also work on sites (woman) and if we're getting a visit from an office person we tell them to bring the biscuits/cakes/bacon butties. They could be the boss, H&S, quality, social value person, male or female. With regards to brewing up we take turns and the only time I'm asked to do it, is when I haven't for a while.

Nanny0gg · 20/10/2024 14:05

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 07:39

I think the meeting element is causing confusion. I do supply refreshments for meetings.

The area I’m feeling is sexist is when I turn up on site to carry out a brief task (no meeting). I’m there to do a job, much like they are. They don’t ask each other if they’ve brought the cakes in.

Then ask them where the biscuit tin is and when are you getting a cuppa?

rwalker · 20/10/2024 14:02

I worked for one of the utilities and visting staff / managers male and female
were asked and did quite often bring biscuits cakes or something

DragonGypsyDoris · 20/10/2024 13:56

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 07:16

“Not the worst thing they could say”

No it’s not, but does that make it right?

None of the males in the company get asked this.

You said there is banter ... and this sounds like banter. There are more important things to get precious about.

JeanLundegaard · 20/10/2024 13:35

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 07:16

“Not the worst thing they could say”

No it’s not, but does that make it right?

None of the males in the company get asked this.

I didn’t mean to imply that it was therefore ok. It’s not a hill I’d be prepared to die on. But it if it’s bothering you so much challenge them or report them.

DelicateSoundOfEchos · 20/10/2024 09:58

It's nothing to do with you being a woman or meetings.

The general expectation is that office people bring goodies when they visit site. It stems from the perception of office people having tea and biscuits the whole day long, not from you being a woman. It's rare for women to visit my sites, but we have male visitors frequently who are always asked in jest when they're getting the donuts out or something similar.

BlueMum16 · 20/10/2024 09:55

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:40

Please read the thread. It’s not a drip feed and I’m not receiving tits comments, I used this as an example of just because something worse happens doesn’t mean this is a non issue.

I think the fact is you feel this is sexist.

What will do you about it?

Did you deal with the other worse incident?

I've been in this environment. I would let the biscuit comment go but I'd be asking the site team to make the drink at their next meeting to readdress the balance if you are senior

WetBandits · 20/10/2024 09:47

Might be, might not be. Difficult to tell without knowing your colleagues, really.

One of my colleagues is the only man on our team, and since he’s quit smoking he’s become a prolific baker! If he doesn’t bring something he’s baked when we have a meeting, we usually feign horror but of course we are joking as there is no expectation for him to bring anything at all.

Wordsmithery · 20/10/2024 09:47

I think you want a particular answer OP and are challenging those offering alternative views.

But since you asked the question, here goes.

In my opinion, your colleagues are gender-steteotyping. But they could be doing so much worse so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Doesn't mean I'd ignore it, though. Next time, I'd say 'I've drawn up a biscuit rota for future meetings. Joe Bloggs, you're next.' Point made, solution found, without a lot of debate.

Yellowpingu · 20/10/2024 09:42

I’m in exactly the same role as you. If there’s friendly banter make a joke of it. You can say you’re too important to waste time, your Mrs told me you’re on a diet, or you don’t get paid enough. You choose. I take our boys ice lollies on boiling hot days, not because I’m female but because it’s a nice thing to do and good for morale.

BalletCat · 20/10/2024 09:38

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:24

@Completelyjo I think you just want a row but to answer some of the earlier posts and the ones that say “worse things happen”.

Saying wore things happen is not misogyny. I haven't seen any misogyny either.

It definitely is a trend on MN these days that disagreeing with anything women say is called misogyny. Or my favourite, expecting a woman to take responsibility for her own situation is internalised misogyny.

alwaysmovingforwards · 20/10/2024 09:05

whatdoidonowffs · 20/10/2024 07:07

In my experience site people always ask office based people if they’re buying the breakfasts/getting the biccies in
probably more of an office / site thing than a sexist thing

I agree. It’s not sexist.
If God appeared, amongst the gasps of shock and awe, a builder would ask if he’d brought the lads a bag of sticky buns.

DrRichardWebber · 20/10/2024 09:01

I think this comes under the ‘micro aggression’ banner. I see the same where I work. For example, men will be greeted with a ‘hello sir’, while women don’t get any of the same respect.

YellowphantGrey · 20/10/2024 08:57

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks and you don't need confirmation on here. If something makes you uncomfortable and you can challenge it, then do so.

If they ask where the biscuits are reply with "not sure where did you leave them?" Or ask one of the other blokes if he's got the biscuits. Bat it back to them.

It's mild sexism as they are expecting the female to provide the biscuits as they see it as a female role so you need to challenge it.

I'm just wondering why you feel the biscuit issue needs challenging and addressing but the sexualised comments don't or has that already been formally dealt with?

Seashellssanctuary · 20/10/2024 08:54

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 07:39

I think the meeting element is causing confusion. I do supply refreshments for meetings.

The area I’m feeling is sexist is when I turn up on site to carry out a brief task (no meeting). I’m there to do a job, much like they are. They don’t ask each other if they’ve brought the cakes in.

But isn't the fact that you are seen to bring these to site occasionally, irrespective who for, the reason why it's said

If you had never brought anything do you think it would ever be mentioned and its more of by association rather than sex

UhOhSpagettiOh · 20/10/2024 08:54

There’s less senior men attend the meetings but I make the tea. Ask them to make tea.

Back to the original question...I do think you should point out that you only do it for the meetings. But it absolutely can be done in a light hearted way. You won't come across like a raging feminist.

"Oh sorry to disappoint you!...I only bring them in for meetings. You can get them in on the days you know I'm coming I like custard creams thanks!"

5128gap · 20/10/2024 08:54

To show sex discrimination you need to demonstrate you are treated unfavourably compared with a male in the same position. This falls down if you're using the site guys comments as arguably they are treating you unfavourably (expecting you to provide food) because you have a different role to them rather than a different sex. In your meetings however, the other men are in the office with access to the kitchen the same as you, yet you are singled out to serve tea, so there is your comparitor. If it were me I'd have a word with my boss. I'd say that the guys seem to be expecting domestics from you and it would help to give the message you don't do that if you weren't always seen to make tea.

Redruns · 20/10/2024 08:46

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:37

I’m expected to make tea as I work in the office even when the meetings are on site (mostly).

Isn't that becuase you're "hosting" the meeting though?

5128gap · 20/10/2024 08:45

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:33

Thanks. I am senior, second to the Director. I deal with all of the finance, contracts, health and safety, customer service. As a woman I also make tea for meetings. There’s less senior men attend the meetings but I make the tea.

Then I'd be addressing that because there isn't any reason why you should be providing domestics, and that where the sexism is at its root. The guys on site are just referencing the role your employers have given you. Because you're a woman.

Talipesmum · 20/10/2024 08:42

purplebeansprouts · 20/10/2024 08:36

Why do you make the tea? Sorry I think I've misunderstood. Is it your role to make the tea? If it's not just make a joke and say oh I think its someone else's turn I've been doing it 3 years!

Agree. If you’re pretty senior and there are more junior people there, ask them to do it.

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:40

DustyAmuseAlien · 20/10/2024 08:38

Well that's a bit of a drip feed isn't it. Your op was asking whether comments about biscuits was sexism. If you are also receiving sexual harassment why are you making posts about biscuit comments? No one should have to tolerate sexual harassment.

Please read the thread. It’s not a drip feed and I’m not receiving tits comments, I used this as an example of just because something worse happens doesn’t mean this is a non issue.

OP posts:
DustyAmuseAlien · 20/10/2024 08:38

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:27

It’s not the worst sexism I’ve faced. Does that make it better? If I’ve had comments about how great my tits look today does that make this issue worse?

Well that's a bit of a drip feed isn't it. Your op was asking whether comments about biscuits was sexism. If you are also receiving sexual harassment why are you making posts about biscuit comments? No one should have to tolerate sexual harassment.

Talipesmum · 20/10/2024 08:38

OP you’re not wrong to be suspicious of this - assuming that women make the tea and provide food is a sexist thing in general. But it’s very muddled here - you’re the only one that does ever provide tea and refreshments because it’s part of your actual role. You’re the only one who turns up to site sometimes with refreshments to clients meetings (is this right? Are they on site or in the office?). And you’re the office person who comes to the site, and lots of people have said - rightly in my experience- that office visitors, male or female, get asked about provision of treats very commonly.
So given all that, it’s just as likely it’s because you’re the only refreshment provider, and office visitor. It’s fine to challenge but given all the things above, I would challenge by saying “is this a client meeting? No? Well, no biscuits then!”

If you were all site workers, or all office workers, or you weren’t the only one who provided biscuits, and you were getting asked this, it would be damn sexist.

When you have the client meetings, is there any way you can delegate some of the refreshment provision to someone else? It feels like it wouldn’t hurt your colleagues to see one of the men on refreshment duty on occasion…

WillLiveLifeAgain · 20/10/2024 08:37

I’m expected to make tea as I work in the office even when the meetings are on site (mostly).

OP posts: