To think gentle parenting is actually permissive

I think of gentle as bring like authoritative but without the punishment eg time out/smacking. So probably sitting at the top of the cross.

Fwiw I would never describe myself as a 'gentle parent' but I do now sway more to that side.

My kids never got into trouble at school and I think they are brilliant. I didn’t put a label on my parenting, I just parented and I was never scared of upsetting my kids.

I think these are the requirements of a good parent:

Love them.
Have firm boundaries.
Praise them.
Cuddle them.
Talk to them.
Spend time with them.
Show you’re proud of them.

Teach them to treat others as you wish to be treated.
Teach them that they are not special and no better than anybody else.
Teach them good manners, please and thank you.
Teach them to value themselves.
Teach them that failure is ok, but they have to try again. Failure is part of the learning and not the end.
Teach them to do things for themselves, and no you’re not a servant.

ALWAYS be a good role model, don’t drink, smoke, swear, be lazy, take drugs, etc There are no days off from this.

Be a role model and go to work. How can you expect them to be motivated if you sit around all day doing sod all.

Keep their home clean and comfortable. It’s embarrassing to bring friends home to a dirty, cluttered or messy home.

Never react to something without hearing the other side of the story e.g. ‘my teacher is being mean to me’. Do not give them that power. Hear them, but don’t give unwavering trust or leave yourself open to manipulation.
At the same time let them know that you won’t hold mistakes against them. There are consequences, but it won’t change how much you love them.

Do not be their friend. Be the person they can trust.

And remember once you’ve had kids there’s no ‘easy’ option. If it’s not hard work, time consuming and demanding of your attention, then you probably won’t reap the reward of good, balanced, well adjusted, resilient children.

If you’re worried about labelling your parent style, then you’re probably wasting your time.

Yes. Then they become the kids no one invite anywhere because the are uncontrollably "spirited" and "kids being kids"

I hadn’t really thought about my type of parenting, I don’t think I really understand the difference between permissive and gentle, but that’s maybe because I think i sit more in the authoritative box.

I googled permissive vs gentle and it stated this: Gentle parenting falls under the broader “authoritative” parenting style that is both firm and kind. Caregivers might think gentle parenting means not ever saying “no." This is actually permissive parenting. Gentle parenting is a non-punitive approach that respects children and aims to foster emotional safety

It’s not helped me at all 😂😂 Maybe I am a gentle parent?

A lot of us who chose gentle parenting do so because we have suffered emotional repercussions from the way we were parented.

Maybe have a bit of compassion?

My mum told me my kids would be brats because of gentle parenting. She has changed her mind now; they are 6 and 8 and thriving, kind, funny and intrinsically motivated little individuals. They also ask me things like: why does Granny try to trick us into doing things and try to control us 😂 I didn't figure that out until I was 30 so I'm very pleased to hear their ability to recognise manipulative behaviour.

Gentle parenting is also a good choice for neurodiverse kids and let's face it, when they arrive there is no way to know.

I was a part time nanny a few years ago to a 4 year old who had gentle parents.
They never used the word ‘no’ and allowed her to express herself however she saw fit.

The final straw for me was having to allow her to watch hours and hours of mindless tv and for her to be allowed to hit me.

When I questioned this, I was told she could self regulate with TV when she was ready to do so and her hitting was communication.

They were both GPs

I said I wouldn’t be returning.

The grandparent who had her a day or 2 a week was despairing!

She was a lovely girl, but they were allowing her to become an unhappy tyrant, crying out for boundaries.

This is a classic example. You don't technically gentle parent if you shout at your DC. That's called normal parenting. Most decent parents don't shout at children constantly, or use threats constantly. Most reasonable decent parents try every other avenue before they start to get cross.

I come from a culture where it's very common to cane your children. Every time there is a local article about it, 90% of the comments are from people who were caned and said it worked for them and they will do it to their children for their own good. It's true that their whole society is on the whole compliant and law-abiding.

Just because something "works" in the moment doesn't mean it's right.

Oh get down from your ivory tower. People live differently to you, doesn't make them wrong.

From what I've witnessed IRL it doesn't equip children for the real world and it doesn't seem to produce happy resilient children. There's a reason why it goes against most people's instincts and they have to 'fight' to be 'gentle parents'. To do it completely properly would literally ruin your daily life. Just one example, You couldn't 'wait for DC to get dressed when they decide too' and 'be late for school' as the natural consequence, as that would then make you late for work. What I witness is people trying to 'be gentle' up to a certain point, and then losing their shit anyway. That is completely confusing for a child who doesn't know which version of their parent they are getting. I don't think it makes happy parents either, as it tends to lead to people beating themselves up when they aren't 'gentle', or they remove themselves entirely from any situation when they feel they're going to lose their shit. I don't think that's good for children either as all it's teaching is conflict avoidance. The reality of life is that you have to learn to deal with conflict and you learn that from your parents. I think it's important for parents to lose their temper, and apologise. Not act like some sort of stepford wife around your kids.

Are you really taking credit for the fact that your children have "no MH issues"?

What are you saying about those of us whose children do?

That sounds like the parenting I was brought up with.

I think there is a problem of definition here. I think there are as many forms of gentle parenting as there are parents who believe that's what they're doing. Attaching the label is grist to the mill of the hang 'em high brigade, who like to harrumph about all things 'soft'.

I know people who 'gentle parent', according to their lights anyway, whose child regularly behaves very roughly, is physically aggressive with younger siblings, makes mean comments to them, and faces no consequences. In fact, behaviour that leaves the younger siblings bruised and crying results in a hug for the aggressor (who is not ND). They seem to believe in the 'noble savage' concept of Rousseau, and that their oldest will one day have a spontaneous moral epiphany. Meanwhile, the younger three have developed the habit of prophylactically apologising every time they think they've put a foot wrong with their older sibling. I don't know how all of this will pan out. I have my suspicions, but maybe I'm a pessimist.

I completely agree. I actually handed in an official complaint to the DWP when they described my son’s meltdowns as ‘tantrums when things don’t go his way’. My response was, he does have tantrums like any other child but that wasn’t relevant to a DLA claim, hence why I specifically said ‘meltdowns’.

Perhaps they don't feel the need for a label?

I never did I just got on with trying to parented the kids I actually got with all their foibles and uniqueness to best of my ability within the confines life presented us with.

I have looked at techniques from how we were parenting from books from other parents and used what worked for my child in particular situations all without need of a label.

Problem with labels is then people get prescriptive - most decent parent just get on with parenting.

Only parents I've heard describe themselves as doing gentle parenting do seem to be the ones struggling - with out of control kids and not teaching social norms - treating shops as playgrounds and loud devices on public transport with no concern for others - which does generate public perception that frankly it's not great parenting.

THIS☝
I did gentle parenting and my very very firm boundaries were called "cruel" and "mean" by permissive parents. Guess who has 2 very happy well adjusted adult DC with no MH issues and great potential?

Fair enough, I did not mean cause offence if I did. As an autistic woman, I have become very frustrated at term meltdown being used for tantrum. it is healthy for children to learn boundaries and tantrums are part of that cycle of emotional regulation.

Neurodivergent children and adults are guilty of having tantrums if they cannot get what they want. It is not always a meltdown. Neurodivergent individuals also need to beware of boundaries and acceptable behaviour in society. Unfortunately in my professional experience there are still parents excusing their child’s behaviours due to the child or young person being neurodivergent.

No no no! Gentle parenting is massively misunderstood and misused.

Before I decided to parent in a more 'gentle' manner I would go to bed wracked with guilt each night for shouting and loosing my cool with my child. Promising myself to be a better parent tomorrow. When I changed my parenting style my relationship with my children improved for the better significantly. I found so much more enjoyment from spending time with my children. For my children the naughty step just inflamed the situation.

It's a completely meaningless term now.

It just about marginally made sense about twenty years ago when Supernanny was seen as revolutionary because she showed you how to not smack (but pointing your finger in a child's face and making them sit in shame on a "naughty chair" was fine!) but these days anything that makes sense that was ever labelled "gentle parenting" is just totally normal good up to date parenting, and doesn't need a special label. And then there is a lot of batshit competitive more-gentle-than-you stuff on algorithm driven social media and this definitely veers into permissive, particularly when it's centred around all the things you're not supposed to do (which would be hilariously ironic if it didn't have actual consequences for real children).

I also think there's a huge middle road problem with parenting advice - a lot of the original gentle parenting stuff was developed as a framework because apparently most parents at that time tended towards being too authoritarian. But the demographic who are attracted to something called "gentle" are probably not the ones who are leaning towards the authoritarian side! And if you're naturally permissive and reading stuff about how to listen to your child more and give in more and evaluate whether your boundaries are really necessary and be less strict, then it's more likely to make you veer off the path entirely.

In general though forget labels and there is some really really excellent parenting material out there now. I would just always suggest that anyone stick to long form content - books, podcasts, or IRL conversations. Take everything else online, especially single issue groups, and anything algorithm driven, with a massive pinch of salt.

There are lots of people who think they’re gentle parents but actually they’re been permissive. Clear, consistent boundaries with consequences is central to gentle parenting.

There are acres of shit parents out there, not all of them are permissive or gentle parenting, they just aren’t up to the job.

To me gentle parenting is being polite to your children. It's being kind and empathetic to their needs. Some parents are so unbelievably rude to their kids I don't know how they expect them to grow up with manners!

My girls are 18 and 14 now and super kind, calm and polite. Maybe I just got lucky?

I distrust anyone who claims to have a "parenting style". It almost always means they take something to an uncomfortable extreme.

You're not just a parent, you're a person (and so is your kid). A kid needs true interaction with a real person who loves them, not a walking guidebook with preprogrammed, empathetic responses. I no more have a parenting style than I have a friendship style. I'm a generally kind, easygoing and fun person. I love my kid more than anything and enjoy being her parent, so on the whole I have no idea why I would punish her or send her away if we can comfort each other or talk things through instead. But on some days, I'm busy or tired and don't want to deal with shit. And on some days, my kid can be really annoying. And then my patience runs out, and I will send them upstairs or outside, or take away that damn bird toy that keeps whistling whenever you shake it and put it on top of the shelves without a word. My kid has no problems understanding this and they seem well-adjusted so far.

I prefer to term it respectful parenting. I think gentle parenting has too much bundled up with now to unpick and no matter your interpretation of gentle, the belief is that gentle parenting = permissive, even if that wasn't originally its origin or intention.

Janet Lansbury's take on RIE parenting is probably the closest 'method' I follow, but really most people pick and choose from various 'methods' depending on what resonates with them and importantly what actually works with their child. There's no cheat code to parenting. But we've settled on nothing really punitive, treating DDs respectfully, giving them agency over their own lives where we can, boundaries over the things we think are important but not anything we find excessive or unimportant, etc.

Ineffective parents are ineffective parents, whether they go to one end of the discipline spectrum or another.

Well at least you've read thousands of Facebook posts on the subject.