To think gentle parenting is actually permissive

These threads are a bit pointless, as there is no absolute value of gentle parenting. Proponents will say it is brilliant, opponents will ascribe the worst kind of lazy uninvolved parenting to it.

Fwiw, I would consider I "gentle parent" from what I know of it. I try and explain expectations, give reasons for what I ask them to do, and don't implement arbitrary punishments. They are not allowed to run wild, or have no boundaries.

I don't think overly permissive or lazy parents is a particularly new concept. There have always been parents who handwaved away bad behaviour. On the whole, most parents I've met seem to be genuinely trying their best and wanting do do the right thing by their kids

I simply said ‘Judy, share with Emma please or I won’t bring you out to play with her anymore

The problem with a lot of these 'if you don't do this, we won't do that' things is that they are toothless. I doubt very much that Judy would never get to see or play with Emma again if she didn't share this one toy on this one occasion, just like all the other 'consequences' parents say that they will never follow through on: if you don't stop that, we won't come on holiday again, do this or no birthday party, etc. After the first few times, the kids know it's toothless too (and also a lot of these consequences are actually just negative consequences for the adults). It becomes baseless threats that carry no water once kids realise that you aren't being truthful (which I think is where the respect thing comes in. I also don't think in the boss example, he did speak respectfully, I would never speak to another adult like that, it was condescending.)

In the Judy/Emma situation, I'd fall somewhere between those two camps. I wouldn't make threats that I know aren't realistic such as never coming to play again, but I might say that if Judy is having trouble with sharing, it might be a good idea for us to leave this time. And if it keeps happening then end the play date there, but not with the threat that she'll never get to do another one or that she can't ever have play dates again or some of the other stuff that often escalates from really very minor childhood stuff.

I disagree massively with your statement about whining kids are annoying and there is no way to not get annoyed unless you’re repressing feelings

i think this is where true GP works absolute wonders. Stop repeating the same behaviours that cause you to repress trauma and feelings.

true gp takes into account that some behaviours are a struggle and to help them along it rather than shut them down immediately or tell them they’re going to have something to truly cry about for example. This is where it really makes a difference.

I’m not saying that it does.

I was always respectful to my children, even if ultimately I was telling them that there was no discussion or explanation for my decision.

But I never gave it the ‘Judy, you have to be nice to Emma because Emma will be sad if you don’t share your toy. It’s a nice thing to do sharing isn’t it. Wouldn’t you like Emma to share her toys with you?’

I simply said ‘Judy, share with Emma please or I won’t bring you out to play with her anymore.’

Firm, fair and actually more respectful than I’ve been spoken to in my adult life on plenty of occasions. But no, I won’t always offer an explanation and don’t expect that in the future either.

Are your children school age where they will get told off and given punishments?

I think the anti-posters see aggression and control as like poisoning. You can get steadily accustomed to it by taking small doses. I see it like drowning. Holding a child underwater doesn't make them better swimmers. Holding them up, teaching and explaining does.

Children grow steadily and have other influences. My child met other, more 'do as I say', adults. Her music teacher is a dragon. No shit is put up with. She adapts. She really likes him. I didn't 'rescue' her from his style, and if she has a boss like him, she'll be fine.

It sounds unhealthy to me. Whining kids are annoying. There is no way to not get annoyed unless you are repressing your own feelings.

Parenting shouldn't be hard work, at least not on a day-to-day basis. Of course there are always rough days. But in general I don't want to "work hard" when I'm with my kids. I couldn't - they live in my house - they are there all the time. I like a relaxed life. I like to have fun. And fortunately that's how it usually goes.

Mind, I also wouldn't enjoy being a permissive parent, because my house would be a mess and all my biscuits would be gone. Or an authoritarian parent because constantly enforcing lots of rules is exhausting, as is shouting and punishing. But I'm absolutely a "lazy" parent in the sense that I avoid "working hard at parenting" whenever I can get away with it.

I just don't think being talked to respectfully leads to a lack of resilience. It's not what I have observed in my professional or personal life.

Well, my boss’ words were respectful, but the tone was undeniably irritated and angry.

The fridge conversation began with:

”Flutter, were you aware that you turned off the office fridge before going home? Did you not think to check as you were messing with those plugs? What are people supposed to do today for their break time?

As a 23 year old this could have broken me before I even started. It was week 1 in my new professional role.

And before that at the age of 22, on a work experience placement through uni, the department lead (male in male dominated industry) on meeting me looked me up and down and said ‘Your university are damned irritating me now. How am I supposed to work with this shit’.

And the lady (pregnant) who I parked next too at the age of 18, a bit too close for her big belly, just yelled at me did I have any fucking consideration.

So no, being an adult doesn’t mean people necessarily treat you with utmost respect. If you’re not a bit resilient, you’re fooked.

This, with bells on.

Gentle parenting also implements boundaries. They don’t scrub each other out. You must do both.

But you can gentle parent amd still tell your children off, you just don't shout and you speak respectfully. I'm sure your boss spoke to you respectfully.

I love the people who say I’ve researched it

so show me your biased research papers that you’ve written then please? Because you can’t research something without writing a paper….

what you actually mean is you’ve goggled it. A lot….

i gentle parent. Well….actually I do low demand parenting. My eldest had adhd and for many many years I did then a huge disservice if I’m honest.

if I could go back in time and scrub out the way I parented before I would do.

I fully believe in my children and I love spending time with them…I don’t often hear parents say they enjoy spending time with their kids…I don’t have any problems with them…we all get on well and I am highly proud of them.

I'm a gentle parent and was gentle parented. I'm not a permissive parent. I can understand why authoritarian parents might think I'm permissive because there are some things I am more relaxed about than them, because authoritarian parents are by definition big on control. But gentle parenting is just the sweet spot between authoritarian and permissive - authoritative parenting which means loving connection based parenting with carefully chosen and age appropriate boundaries, rather than arbitrary boundaries based on parental control or no boundaries. The evidence is clear that this is what children need for the best outcomes in life.

Quite often when a child says they have been shouted at, what they mean is that they’ve been told off. The tone of voice is stern or confrontational, rather than loud.

I have most certainly been told off as an adult. From the time I parked too close to another vehicle, to the time in work where I forgot to do something important before I left
for the day. Then there’s another time in work when I turned off the fridge by accident, spoiling everyone’s lunch and milk etc.

A lot of people these days cannot handle such occurrences and feel attacked when they are rightly chastised, instead of seeing it as an opportunity for growth.

Wish my parents had used gentle parenting on me. I’m certain I’d have been so much happier as an adult.

I think I this pretty much sums up good parenting, whatever you wish to call it !

But gentle parenting is hard work. If my child asks for a Biscuit and I say no and then they start to cry and whine. It would be easy to be permissive and just give them a Biscuit to shut them up. Equally it's easy to shout at them to 'stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about'. It's not so easy to empathise with their disappointment but stand strong and listen to the whining without getting annoyed or irritated and shouting at them. This is how I see gentle parenting.

I don't understand this argument. No one has ever shouted at me as an adult, nor have they hit me or shamed me or made me sit in time out because I was over emotional.

All well and good giving the distinction between permissive and gentle parenting but honestly it's just splitting feathers really.

This is the best thing I've read on here for a long time:

And remember once you’ve had kids there’s no ‘easy’ option. If it’s not hard work, time consuming and demanding of your attention, then you probably won’t reap the reward of good, balanced, well adjusted, resilient children.

It's a disservice to the child

You are setting them up to live in a world that doesn't exist

You are not teaching them basic behaviours to survive in the world

They get to adulthood/teens and realise that the world isn't playing to their rules.

Handling a child with white gloves when no-one else ever will just sets them up to fail

So gentle parenting gives the child lots of love and support, validating feelings (“I can see you’re upset”) but also boundaries, where no means no. Maybe explains why something, or offers warnings- “we’re leaving in 10 minutes so make sure you finish your game”, “leaving in 5…” “ok let’s get going…” “you can’t have chocolate now because we are going to have lunch first, if you’re hungry some fruit is better for your body”. Child knows where boundaries are and also isn’t snapped at suddenly or shocked by parents. Feels loved whatever they do, not shamed.

authoritarian parenting may include sudden sanctions, possibly unrelated to the seriousness of the offence, or which are OTT. Or from 0 to 10 in an instant which leaves the child confused and with no way back. Eg kid trailing round a supermarket whining for snacks while parent ignores, ignores, ignores, then suddenly gets angry and says something like, “stop whining or you can’t have your birthday party tomorrow”. Child hasn’t a clue where boundaries are and may fear excessive sanctions.

permissive parenting has no boundaries at all. Child is allowed to do whatever they like with very little guidance.

It a term coined by an author to sell her parenting book in 2010s:

https://sarahockwell-smith.com/2013/09/22/what-is-gentle-parenting-and-how-is-it-different-to-mainstream-parenting/

I use the term ‘gentle parenting’ a lot when I write and a lot of people ask me what exactly I mean by it. “What is gentle parenting?” they say…… Often they confuse the ‘gentle parenting’ terminology with the idea of Attachment Parenting (or AP is it is commonly known), which isn’t strictly true. Although often attachment parenting and gentle parenting can be and are complimentary, attachment parenting is a style of parenting following specific principles (FYI click HERE for the principles of Attachment Parenting), whereas I see ‘gentle parenting’ as just a way of being that has no bearing on making specific choices to be in-line with a certain style.
So, with this in mind I’ve tried to come up with my idea of the definition of gentle parenting, ultimately I think it can be summed up with three words:

1. understanding,
2. empathy
3. respect

I think as it's gained traction researchers are then trying to fit it in with their existing terminology and work out what it means within that framework.

The table may help more - according to that we've "gentle parenting" whereas we just parented using some of what we experienced ourselves growing up and trying to get rid of bits we disliked.

Like I said above. Gentle Parenting advocates saying that other parenting styles all cause significant psychological harm.

It's the schrodingers box of parenting styles. Every tiny little thing you say/do has profound impact (traumatising etc) but at the same time anything you say/do to help prevent misbehaviour will have no impact because the child's misbehaviour is developmentally expected

Had not heard of the no true Scotsman fallacy...thought is was a reference to what he wears under his kilt, and I couldn't see the reference. Googled it, and I'm glad I did - it makes much more sense now!