To be angry that people don't grasp you can't stop adults ending their life

I think there's 2 sides.

Family and friends can only do what they are able to support wise, the decision is never anyone else's fault.

That said, in high profile self destruct cases you just can't help wondering with all the long winded tributes how many of these celebs had actually been available and had returned calls recently. I bet there's a lot of guiit at the moment.

I had a relative that committed suicide. He was the sweetest, most sensitive child but had a very deprived childhood, little education, struggled to find work, turned to alcohol, lost his wife and kids. It was just a shit story. I think life is hard, often it's too hard and I don't blame people for sometimes needing a way out of it. It makes me so sad all he went through, but I'm glad he's not still suffering because I don't think life would have got any easier for him.

There's no question that you did all you could OP. People just need to think that if it was happening to someone they loved then they would be able to make a difference. They are projecting their fears and beliefs onto you.

Thank you for writing this @Differentstarts
I have lost people due to suicide. I also work in mental health and have known people die by suicide. It is awful, tragic, unbearably sad and devastating. But everything was done to save those people and they couldn’t be saved.
I am so sorry for your loss.

People are the same when a mentally ill person does something terrible, it's all "where were the family?!" as if you'd just lock your aggressive psychotic family member up in your house and watch them 24/7 because the MH services won't do anything.

As for depression, some people are just unhappy in themselves, there's nothing anyone on the outside can do. Plus it's crazy how much you can let your life spiral (especially if you're famous) to the point these people probably do think family and friends are better off without them because they know how much worry and grief they cause everyone.

I am so sorry for your loss.

It's human nature to try make things make sense and when someone dies it's hard to make it make sense. Insensitive comments are made and missed opportunities looked for. It's isn't right. You cannot prevent all suicide. Mental health services do need to be better but not all people seek help or show signs of distress. People will always slip under the radar

She doesn't sound angry, she sounds rational.

My dad overdosed and my mom is homeless. People often think family should solve issues that are up to the individual.

When a poor drug addict dies people blame the addict, when a rich addict dies people blame those around them.

There is lots of sides to this.

I had 2 male family members that killed themselves, we had no idea until after it was done. A lot of people don't tell anyone their plans, men are also less likely to talk about issues and more likely to make sure the first attempt is quick and permanent.

You also get people who reach their personal limits too though, like the thread 'I don't like my sister and her mental health' a few weeks ago with the women who no longer cares if her sister dies after years of dealing with it.

If anyone says 'why didn't YOU stop it', then just point out THEY didn't magically stop anything either. Keep reminding them when they put you down that if it was so easy why didn't they do it.

My dsis has chronically bad mh.
Once in a panic she expressed to a mh nurse that she was worried she may end her life.
The nurse replied ‘ You probably will one day.’
In what situation is that appropriate?
I was so shocked. Is this normal?

Couldn't agree more, OP.

As someone who lost their mother to suicide, a lot of the platitudes around it really fuck me off. Did we simply not try hard enough? Because that's what you're saying, if you ask why we couldn't stop her. She was sending me jolly texts about her manicure. At the same time, she was buying a cremation plan.

In fact there's a lot of stuff around suicide prevention that fucks me off. Charities and experts want nice, neat messaging but it fails to capture the nuances and wildly difference aspects of each case. Don't get me started on the language policing – I will use the words I want to describe the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

@SerafinasGoose you are absolutely right re the parallel of addiction, and we had that too.

Totally agree, it just makes everyone around feel guilty which is just wrong. I think it comes from ignorance, anyone that’s dealt with MH knows differently.

The phrase "Empty vessels make the most noise" seems particularly apt for these vacuous gossips who know nothing, yet whose mouths insist on flapping with their uninformed opinions.

No, my poor love, you did all you could and it's not your fault. It won't stop you blaming yourself and wondering what more you could have done, but that will ease with time. Be kind to yourself

The priest at the funeral of a cousin who killed himself was very firm about not asking ourselves 'why?' as well about not blaming ourselves. He was right, but it is hard not to start making up stories about what could have been different.

It is one of the most difficult forms of bereavement - all my sympathy to anyone who has experienced it.

I've been the person wanting to end it.

We need to move on from the talking about it is the catch all it isn't, I'm not doing down talking about it as it works for some. But having been there and a friend who has been we don't want to talk.

Sadly if someone is intent enough, you can't stop them.

I am so sorry about your best friend, that must be painful for you.

I've known people who committed suicide, they were loved and they were good people. Nobody could have stopped them. It was horrible for those left behind who kept on wondering, "What could I have done?", and the grief. However these people felt they had reached the end for whatever reason and just did it.

Don't be angry, those left behind are human beings and are bound to wonder, to analyse, and feel anguish about a suicide. Hopefully in time they will be able to accommodate it but it will always leave a scar.

You get on with your life and try to make it a good one. You were a good friend, now nurture yourself.

It's always so sad when a person ends their life...
We have no way of knowing if recent events were accidental or ment to be.
It's awful to know that this is the only way they feel they can find peace.

I've know a few people that have taken their own lives so can only speak of those cases both younger and older people and in each one mental health wasn't a factor as such, it was how they were treated by those around them and it wasn't a "I'm going to end my life today" moment, there was no talk of doing so before hand, no signs, no cry for help, yet I suspect just slowing dying inside at what was happening around them.

Now I'm certainly NOT saying that these circumstances are the same as anyone on this thread who's lost family/friends, but people can only take so much whether it's continually having persons bully you or using family as a weapon and preventing you from seeing them, it such a shame and must feel endless and like there's only one way to be free of it.

I completely understand this anger, OP. I think the idea that it's preventable in every case comes from a skewed perception of mental health and of suicide - a belief that there will always be several 'calls for help' first, and lots of warning, and that the right intervention at the right time will save everyone. But every case doesn't work like that - sometimes people get sick of the battle they're facing and sometimes there is absolutely no warning at all.

When I was younger, I remember reading about Sarah Kane, a young playwright. She had been hospitalised after 2 separate suicide attempts, and she told the psychiatrist.. "that she had no intention of killing herself while she remained at King's College Hospital, but in abstract terms she said that at some point she would certainly kill herself." The last people who saw her said she seemed happy, brimming with confidence, talkative - signs hat we know now are common when a person has made the decision. And then, whilst still in hospital and under supervision, she slipped away at night and did it.

You are right…..and I’m sorry your friend took her own life 💐

We can't control what another person does. We are all responsible for our own actions, and that includes those who ultimately choose to take their lives. In answer to your question, people say these things because they simply have no idea. When someone dies in these truly horrible circumstances they will trot out the same tired platitudes for the want of finding something to say that's less ignorant, more measured, and more considered.

It's the same tune for those left behind when an addict succumbs to their addiction. The thoughtless, ignoramus observation, which never fails to be trotted out, is: 'but why didn't the family do something?' Or: 'Why did they "let" them do that?' Such people can have no idea of the utter anguish of watching a loved one destroying themselves little by little, whilst you do every conceivable thing to help them but in the end know that you are utterly powerless to stop them. The only person who can get themselves into recovery, and somehow find the will to stay there, is the addict themselves.

As if those who have lost dear ones in such hideous circumstances need to be further laid under the harsh guilt trip they undoubtedly also take upon themselves, or to have the pain of their bereavement further intensified by this sort of behaviour.

I can't answer for what goes on in the minds of those people. It's as callous as the equally mindless, thought-free cliche of 'hugging my loved ones a little closer tonight!' Okay, so on that one at least, it's likely that many of us do think it. But it takes a special kind of insensitive, uninsightful dick actually to come out and say it.

for you and for your friend. I'm sorry.

People don’t understand the frame of mind that allows you to plan to end your own life and can’t imagine it and as a result they are frustrated and despair because they can’t understand and can’t accept that there’s no way to stop /change / prevent it.

I've worked in psychiatry for a long time and you are 100% right OP. If someone is determined to end their life then they will do it.

Sadly, some people seem to think "love conquers all" and this has never been the case. Many people who end their lives have multiple people around them who love them dearly and would do literally anything for them. However, if inside you feel you are worthless then external validation from others means nothing.

You can of course help and support people but think about how hard it is for us to change ourselves- we therefore have no hope of changing someone else when we are not inside their heads.

It's deeply wrong and hurtful to suggest that anyone around them could have prevented it. I am sorry for your loss.

A very, very close friend ended her life last year. I knew where she was mentally, I knew that she'd been temporarily, well whatever the US form of sectioning is called, my friend was American, and handcuffed to a bed for 48 hours which funnily enough didn't make things better. Her mother had her "sectioned"and she and a few others were trying to ride out the storm.

The very last time we spoke I basically knew it was going to happen. She was in so much mental and physical pain. I told her how much I loved her, that I didn't want to lose her, life would feel empty without her but that was it. I didn't try to persuade her not to because I knew it would make no difference. If it was going to be our last conversation I wanted us to talk and laugh about us, the things we'd done, the times we'd had. I hoped so hard I was wrong, that she'd find it within herself to try life again but she didn't. I miss her every day, I wish she was still here although I've been seriously ill this year and I'm sort of glad she's been spared that.

When I was told I thought I'd feel guilty for not having done enough and angry at her for leaving us all but I didn't. I understand why she did what she did and I know that nothing was going to stop her. I hate that she was in so much pain, that nothing was working, that there had been so much in her life that had fucked with her mental health and that physical pain was a constant. She was one of the finest people I've ever known and being loved by her was one of the great joys of my life.

I am sorry for your loss OP
And yes, you are right, you can't stop someone ending their lives if they have chosen to do this.
Even with all kinds of support in place, for some people that just isn't enough. I feel like someone else said that mental health conditions can also be terminal, like some physical conditions and just like those physical conditions, sometimes the treatments can no longer keep the mental health condition at bay.

It's nothing but a tragedy for everyone concerned and people should not be looking to blame anyone, especially not family members or friends. Sometimes people are failed by the system and better intervention could possibly have avoided the death but sometimes even with everything in place nothing helps.

As for Liam Payne, why are people here talking as if that was suicide? Do we know that he intended to end his life? It sounds to me like he was completely out of it on drugs and probably fell off the balcony in a tragic accident because he wasn't properly aware of his surroundings.