To be angry that people don't grasp you can't stop adults ending their life

I work in a university and there is currently a campaign, by some parents who sadly lost children to suicide, for us to have a duty of care to students, potentially making us criminally liable (as I understand it) if they end their life as a result of the pressures they may face at university. I’ll be handing in my notice if this happens, and I expect I won’t be the only one.

I agree wholeheartedly with @Twatalert about being able to walk into A and E with a MH crisis and be taken seriously. No it won't save everyone but if it saves even some then that's worth it.

I agree. I've gone on to do some work in the area and from what I've learned, if that trigger event comes and no-one is there, it can happen very fast. We like to think we have control, but we really don't. That's a hard and scary thing to accept.

Absolutely true. Some people you can't reach. If love could save people, there would be very few suicides.

I've had a friend survive a suicide attempt. She said it was like being in a trance at the time, she just couldn't see anything or anyone else in the moment.

I've had another friend die through suicide. We know we did everything we could. I have no room for those who judge because they're just clueless about the reality. Sure, there are things we could have tried differently, but we made the best informed decisions we could at the time. It's also highly unlikely that the other things would have changed the outcome, it might even have hastened it.

I agree that it’s not always possible to stop them. I’m sorry for your loss, and that people accused you of doing nothing to try and save your friend. That’s an awful thing to say to someone who’s grieving and is obviously not true at all. It sounds like you did everything you could.

He was kind of desperate if he feared going to prison more than death. It's possible he might have taken his life in prison. Whether he deserved to be in prison or not is not the issue. But of course I agree that feeling low or afraid doesn't necessarily mean mental illness. Seems he was making a sane decision to die, like those people who go to Dignitas due to terminal or life limiting illness.

I'm so sorry. That is tragic. 💐

This is very true. People who go to Dignitas, for example, are not mentally ill.

There was a chap hovering over a motorway on a bridge where I live. Lots of people online saying that they hoped he got help... must be desperate etc. He was up there because he was trying to avoid being arrested!

You just can't sometimes.
My DH niece tried many times and was stopped or helped each time.

Then succeeded in an awful way.

Shame on those who are pushing guilt on you. It isn't your fault . And I'm sorry for your loss. There are no words for t this kind of horror, I wish I could give you a big hug.

@

Everybody talks about mental health services being insufficient to support suicidal people etc - but in reality many suicidal people don't have mental ill health at all. Some do, and find themselves suicidal as a result of severe depression or psychosis but others are actually making a decision with capacity to do so due to situational factors and would not respond to a mental health intervention. Suicidality isn't a mental health symptom by itself. It's very complex and sometimes cannot be prevented by others no matter what is tried.

What things though ? You mean called an ambulance?

YANBU at all. I've seen some awful comments online about Liam Payne's girlfriend, friends and family.

Exactly - I used to hide and keep on my person all medicines in the house that my mum could have used to hurt herself (at 17) and was told she would just find a different method. I also tried all of the methods mentioned, hiding sharp objects, multiple long daily phone calls, between us not leaving her alone, repeated intervention by the GP, ambulances, community mental health services, a private therapist I paid for in my early twenties. She ultimately chose suicide by innocuous objects and completely hid any sign of planning it. Same for my friend's friends who she has lost to suicide. There's also no help in offering walks and GP appointments to someone who is agoraphobic, paranoid, violent, somehow repeatedly assessed as not needing to be sectioned.

I definitely don't think the PP is wrong and don't want to invalidate her experience at all, she is right we should keep checking in on people, supporting them, signposting, offering help. But there are degrees to suicidal ideation and sometimes people are so determined they go beyond the point of help.

Ok, so we just need utopia. No trauma, for anyone. Perfect families.

I think starkly stating 'anecdote isn't evidence' in response to six pages of people talking about the most devastating thing that has ever happened to them is, to put it lightly, a little cold.

I'm out.

The WHO says suicide is preventable.

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide#:~:text=Suicide%20is%20a%20serious%20public,interventions%2C%20suicides%20can%20be%20prevented.

Anecdote isn't evidence.

Prevention isn't just about when a persons at crisis point, it's the years before - preventing trauma, having stronger community & family ties etc.

Oh my gosh that's heartbreaking.

My son has severe mental health struggles and this is my ongoing worst nightmare.

I can't imagine their pain. 😢

Was watching The Dog House last week. Last week, the mum getting a dog revealed how her son died to suicide. There were no signs at all. He went for a cycle ride, and never came home. He was sixteen. It’s not always preventable (and mum/sister, if you’re reading this, my heart goes out to you, and I hope your little dog, Elouise , is giving you a lot of joy and comfort).

That's not practical though and doesn't work for everyone.

Usually when someone decides to die they are happy and at peace days prior to it. There are no signs at that moment. In fact they might look on better than usual.

@unmemorableusername that's brilliant that you had this. It's great that you could still see and accept those acts of kindness. Someone else may not be able to do this though, let alone leave the house. Or they may need something completely else, which they may also not know, or those around them may not be able to see. There is simply no logical approach possible to help someone who is suicidal like there is with physical illness, where you focus on keeping them breathing and check the pulse.

What you describe as MH first aid is practical help. It does not and cannot get through to the person though and can still only be 'administered' if the suicidal person allows to. My work referred me to the employee assistance program, which was total BS and id nothing more than lip service.

I would love to see the day one can walk into A&E and receive tailored help like anyone with cancer or heart disease would.

Oh my. I'm sorry but this is so naive. It's not like a TV show, where someone declares 'I am suicidal' and everyone else runs around hiding the kitchen knives.

I have had three suicides of people close to me. One I have spoken about a lot. She was utterly unreachable due to addiction. We never stopped trying, though. Another was in a mental health unit at the time of her death, and still found a way. And the last one, he never told a soul what he was thinking – which is common with suicides.

Two of those people were under professional mental health care and could not be stopped. The idea that someone who had gone on a workplace mental health course could have prevented any of these three tragic deaths – and anyone could have 'made happy memories' with them – is utterly unrealistic, not to mention quite upsetting.

But if someone chooses to end their life despite all available help being offered to them, the helpees are not to blame at all, are they?

There actually is a MH 1st aid course.

An employer sent me on it!

There are practical things like removing methods, not leaving them alone and taking them to the gp/ a&e depending on the urgency.

Long term I was helped by 'small acts of kindness' ie people spending time with me, getting me out of house in sunlight every day, doing purposeful things, confidence boosting, making me feel valued & wanted.

Making someone feel like a burden & hard work is counterproductive. Creating happy memories is much more important.

Sending love and hugs to everyone.