To wonder if ‘body positivity’ has gone too far?

There’s so much on social media that isn’t healthy:

Promotion of cosmetic surgery
fixation on makeup
too much pressure to buy useless shit
over exercising to point of obsession
fixation on celebrity
fixation on looks generally
too much travel on planes
obsession with “luxury”

Do you have issues with all these things too?

I doubt there’s a fat person alive who doesn’t know it’s unhealthy to carry too much weight. But so many people struggle to lose weight, That I think it’s important to ensure people aren’t feeling victimised because of something beyond their control, and often obesity is a disease like any other with multifaceted causes.

I think it’s really interesting how the success of weight loss drugs are forcing people to rethink the causes of obesity. These drugs work by effectively making certain hormones more efficient. So by making these hormones more efficient then people who have struggled with diets most of their lives are suddenly seeing weight drop off. Therefore, it really appears that there is no real option than to say obesity is caused physically by the thing these jabs are fixing. However, there are multiple reasons behind these physical causes which need to be addressed in order to cure society of the pressures of obesity.

Interestingly , there seems to be increasing numbers of the “righteous thin” still clinging to the Christian concept of the seven deadly sins in order to demonise those who are overweight and clinging onto the “gluttony and laziness” rhetoric that is now as outdated as creationism in an attempt to maintain their feeling of superiority over the lazy gluttonous fat people.

What someone does to their own body is their own business. "Influencers" preaching to vulnerable women, telling them that it's fine to be morbidly obese, resulting in those women dying prematurely is grossly irresponsible. You wouldn't accept a "bulimia positivity influencer", would you?
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/10/fat-pride-obesity-public-health-warnings-dangerous-weight-levels

You can read more about the making of those shows and how reality tv contestants in general have been manipulated, misrepresented and exploited. There were people on that show who had severe and dangerous eating disorders (both the fat and thin participants), being presented for our entertainment. They weren't offered any kind of meaningful help, and the premise of 'swapping diets' couldn't possibly serve any kind of useful purpose for either of them. It was a really shocking, disgusting show and not evidence in any way of anyone's life, including the people who were on it.

I think very few people will aspire to be obese, but I do think people are losing sight of what's a 'normal' size.

It's tricky. dt's not healthy, but I don't think people who are overweight or obese should be forced to wear a sackcloth and ashes and made to feel terrible, either.

I think they were representative of super large and super skinny, not just fat and thin. They were on the extreme side.

Slim people do eat less than large people in general, but it isn't necessarily a huge effort. At least not to the extent of the recent poster who started a thread about weight loss injections who said she never eats toasties.

Reality tv is not actually a reflection of real life. The people on that show were not representative of most fat or thin people. They were selected for shock value. Those shows are deeply unethical and pander to the lowest common denominator. They're not useful in any real discussion of weight or lifestyle.

Sure! I don't argue with progress and medical advancements. Society is always striving to make life easier and better for the future. I'm happy we have antibiotics and vaccinations and universal education and a welfare state. I don't look around and go 'ok that's enough, we need to stop improving things now'. If injections for weight control improve public health, that will be wonderful for everyone as far as I can tell, though that's hardly guaranteed.

An intelligence injection is really hypothetical, but whenever we discover a barrier to learning - maybe a recognition of adhd or autism for example - and we can medicate or otherwise accommodate it so that everyone can access learning, I celebrate that. I don't think those people should have it harder when we can make it easier.

I also think you might not know very much about the injections - they do have a wide range of side effects and patients can really suffer with vomiting, diarrhoea, fatigue and more serious risks as well. Also people do have to change their diet and activity level in order to lose weight with the injections. If you think they're magical, you haven't actually looked into them at all. I wouldn't call them an easy option, but it's clear that they're making weight loss achieveable for more people more quickly and that seems like a positive benefit for society overall.

Im also astounded at my 600lbs life how many patients are not prepared to make the small lifestyle change the doctor requires before he will let them undergo gastric bypass surgery.

those women are now being offered injections I’m sure as a solution

Yup, I'd get exactly the same. "Don't worry you're fine! " Even now people don't believe me until I show them pictures! They say they can't remember me being that big.

Being morbidly obese is not beautiful - it's a one-way ticket to various cancers, joint and organ failure and an often limited life. Being skeletal is not beautiful either. We need to be looking at attaining a happy medium that is an ideal rather than seeking to emulate people who are extreme.

When there are a few high profile health professionals trying to indoctrinate people with the idea that even if you can't climb the stairs or tie your own shoe laces without breathlessness due to obesity we know it's gone too far.

You're right. The amount of times I have heard overweight people say they think slim people are lucky, they can eat whatever they want, etc. Utter crap. Maybe that's the case for very rare people. Most slim people eat right, exercise and work hard at it. The TV show Supersize vs Superskinny was very telling in the amount and type of food each group ate.

And my point is that unreasonable people exist everywhere and they say things. It doesn't mean that no one 'is allowed' to talk about health and weight, it just means people will argue with them. And when someone posts in a way that suggests fat people can live happy and productive lives, they find people argue with them too. If you post things online, people will argue with you. Some of those people will make good points, some will be insane. There isn't a universal consensus that this doctor is wrong; it's just that not everyone likes his message or thinks that he's right. Plenty of people do, which allows him to be successful online.

Fat phobia is real - on this thread there are one or two posters expressing visceral disgust at fat bodies and mocking them (eg someone posted that they don’t want to look at skimping dressed fat people and put laughing emojis on their comment) - that's straightforwardly unpleasant and unkind. But sure, some people will say things that you consider are not fat phobic and yet they'll be accused of fat phobia. That doesn't prove anything - just that there are a wide range of opinions out there and lots of people are prepared to argue their point. That doctor isn't a helpless victim, it's still entirely possible for people to talk about health and weight in all sorts of ways, no one is being silenced on this just because they get some pushback. We all have to be resilient to the fact that people will disagree with us sometimes.

You can’t be objective! We must all be, think and look the same with the least amount of effort! Magic in pills, injections and bottles!

This is also my experience. I think the average size in the UK is a 16? So a size 20 really isn't much bigger than that. When I used to talk about how I needed to get drastic changes, people would tell me I was fine as I was.

To be fair, tall and muscly people also impinge on me on public transport.

@LostFearlessLeader
a world full of intelligent skinny people who have been injected to be such.

Sounds wonderful.

My point is that he is accused of fat phobia just for talking objectively about health and weight.

Of course, if the injections ARE a short cut then those ex-fatties won't be quite so tired (or bitter) as those that did it the old fashioned way. In the end, they'll be the winners.

And, just like lab diamonds, in the end it won't matter how they did it - because no one will know the difference.

Its not a substitute. It still requires good choices and exercise. It allows the brain to recognise when the body is full by providing receptors for the hormone the body releases. It allows a person not to constantly think about food, as the hormone that tells a person they aren't hungry is working as it should.

I get how its frustrating that they are now available when you did it and achieved it by sheer will and determination, but that isnt possible for everyone. You come across as quite bitter you had to do it by yourself and how hard it was for you when others are having their journey made a bit easier. What you have achieved is very admirable. But not everyone has the same journey.

Oh I would be quite happy to have a society full of intelligent people! It would be of enormous benefit to everyone. Why on earth would I begrudge it because I worked hard? I love studying! I did it because I found it enriching and valuable and I wouldn't care if anyone else did it differently to me.

Everyone should be free to be whatever bloody size they want - big or small. People who’ve got the time or headspace to think about and comment on others are the ones with the problem. Ps I’ve had anorexia and struggle to maintain a ‘normal bmi’ and I’ve had comments the other way and people looking me up and down - saying ‘for gods sake will you just eat some cake’ and ‘it makes you feel sick when you see her arms’ . I even had a ‘friend’ comment when I got out of a hot tub on a girls weekend ‘omg she’s so thin it makes me feel ill’ (I wasn’t particularly thin at that point). It hurts all ways. Just let people be.

Gosh I shudder to think what may happen when we discover an injection for intelligence or academic success … sorry for all those who study hard and put in the hours because we must then be happy that there is a shortcut for others so they don’t have to endure the hard work of the process but can still reap the benefits of its success.

It seems extremely twisted logic to deduce from the existence of weight loss injections that people who lose weight without using them are judged negatively - from looking at Mumsnet threads it goes the other way: people taking the jabs are dismissed as lazy and stupid, while people who lose weight in other ways are praised.

You think I'm discounting the importance of willpower; I think you're dismissing what the other poster said about hormones and the huge impact that they can have. I think you're ignoring eating disorders, many of which end up causing obesity - I know some people assume all eating disorders make sufferers thin but that isn't the case. I think you and the OP don't really understand how complicated and multifactorial obesity is - it's not something caused by seeing a fat person wearing nice clothes on Instagram or doing a yoga tutorial on TikTok. It isn't down to fat people having inferior morals or being dreadful people. I think all of us could do with having a bit more empathy and acceptance and understanding that other people's lives are different to ours.

I don't think you have any insight into whether or not people taking injections are 'honest' with themselves or that they haven't tried hard enough. It's possible they might have tried just as hard as you but failed, for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes willpower isn't enough to change what your body and brain can do. Mind over matter doesn't work every time. I don't think it costs us anything to be compassionate to other people and to extend them the benefit of the doubt rather than making assumptions.