To be devastated that my husband won't let our 2yo be a 2yo

There's a middle ground.

My ds and I did lots of fun creative things when he was younger. Wr painted everyday, made a lot of crafts from outdoor forages. He made his big train tracks and Lego villages.

We both have ADHD and are medicated and it's important for us to have order. We need to know where things are and need a clean and organized home to do that in.

Aside from the train tracks everything was tidied as we went along. He learned how to organize his belongings and tidy without it being overwhelming.

My home is typically guest ready, and ds now 13 tidies and vacuums our home on his own accord. There is value in teaching these life skills. Without them you have adults who struggle to live with others because they don't know how to clean up after themselves.

Not to mention as an artist myself this idea that creativity is messy isn't necessarily true. Making something messy is absolutely fun, but teaching them to be able to clean up after themselves and having age appropriate systems for them is creative in itself. That's why days cares look immaculate in the morning, and have the kids tidy up. It's important for them to learn and it makes it easier for them to play.

There's nothing wrong with leaving certain things out, but having your daughter clean up her jewelry from the middle of the floor and put it in a container she can get out tomorrow isn't squelching her creativity. It's teaching her how to respect other people's space and is less likely she will lose things.

If we don't I still these values in kids I'm not sure how we can expect teenagers to suddenly pick up after themselves.

The OP mentions that it is possible her husband has OCD. Now I know that term gets used far too frequently and very rarely has it been professionally diagnosed, but it probably demonstrates that the DH has an unreasonably low level tolerance for ‘mess’ and toys

It’s possible to have both. A child can enjoy playing but also have some periods during the day where it is tidy up time.

I have two kids 2.5 and 8 weeks. The toddler causes a lot of mess. Toys, clothes, food, potty accidents etc etc The baby is mainly either feeding or sleeping on me. The house looks great after the cleaner has been!

I am a pretty messy person and I struggle (and often fail) to keep the house tidy. However that's with 2 children, working and no cleaner.
With one 2yo and no job, keeping it mostly tidy shouldn't be hard.

I see no indication that dad can't bathe his child it do bedtime, just that mum doesn't like his sensible rules and therefore she doesn't let him do it.

There is definitely middle ground here, encouraging a toddler to tidy, doing bits as you go along and trying to contain the mess to a small area.

There's also a big difference between a child getting out multiple toys to be part of the same game and repeatedly moving in to the next thing because they don't want to tidy. Encourage the first but the second is where the tidying needs to happen. Most toddler classes and playgroups have a tidying up time, as do nurseries. They need prompting and you to do it with them, but it's very normal for a 2 year old to help tidy away their toys.

@Snowpaw that was my attitude. You soon miss the ‘mess’ when your ‘baby’ goes to university! And all the toy car races all over the place has translated into a motorsport degree

A mug works better, less broken points

I don't agree that a child should have to put one toy back before getting another out...what a way to dampen a child's imagination / creativity. What a dampner on open ended play. I am looking across my living room currently and there is a herd of toy horses in one corner, stuffed animals having a chat in another corner and a little pile of pretend jewels in the middle. My daughter comes in and plays big elaborate games with it all and it keeps her completely absorbed and entertained in the mornings after breakfast and after school.

My aim for our home is for her to enjoy playing with her toys and getting the most out of her creative play. I don't want a sterile immaculate home. I want her to relax and know that she can play with whatever she likes.

Yes it gets tidied up but that happens when the game is finished, which might be after an hour or after a few days! I just want her to have fun. I don't care about the "mess".

On the pencils - I can't help thinking there is a better solution than tipping them all out. Can you get her something where she doesn't need to tip the pencils out of it? A flat tin where they are all side by side in one layer? If he wants her to be neat then this seems like a compromise.

People are saying that they are team DH. I'm actually team toddler as she is not being unreasonable to splash in the bath, chuck a toy out of the bath and to select another book for a bedtime story. Even if OP made sure that all the toys were tidied away before her DH comes home, he would still have issues with his toddler daughter.

On the one hand, I think you can teach some good habits to your daughter. Even if she's not going to get it yet, the repetition and consistency will help her. My one year old tidies up when asked (then dumps them all out again - but he understands putting things in the box).

On the other, he's not your fucking manager, and he seems to understand neither basic child development or looking after a toddler all day.

There may or may not have been in OP’s case, but it’s not impossible for this to be new behaviour.
My husband changed completely as soon as our DC was born, and it was a huge shock.

I think there's always going to be messy days with a toddler, but it shouldn't be very single day. And dinner doesn't need to be a big performance every day either.
I would try to meet him half way. See if this really is what he's complaining about or if he's just miserable.

I completely agree

Exactly this!

If I was coming home to a huge mess, then yes I would be annoyed.

If it’s just a couple of toys, then he’s being a twat.

It reads as though he moans at his 2 year old for getting a second book out during story time and moans again if she tips her pencil crayons out while colouring.

Nothing stopping him modelling the behaviour he wants to see and showing her what to do but he he doesn't see that as his job.

for example during bedtime stories if she gets out a second book or tries to colour and tips her pencils out, he will complain at her
OP are you saying she tries to colour during bedtime stories? Or are those two separate points.

Keeping one room tidy is possibly a way forward. If the mess is in the kitchen but not the living room at least there's one calm space.
My house was such a mess when the children were toddlers. It was eye opening for me to witness nursery tidy up time, and how they raced around to be the first to tidy away. She might not be quite at that stage yet, but definitely worth planning to get her involved in tidying pretty soon! (Isn't there a "tidy up" song people use?)

Team husband. It would do my head in to come home to that.

If you think he’d be interested get him a book on toddler brain development, lots in Amazon. Maybe if he understood all the amazing thoughts and processes that your daughter is going through learning, experimenting and developing everyday he would be more understanding.

Really depends how much the mess is. A few pencils that take 30 seconds to put away, he’s unreasonable. A bomb site of multiple toys scattered around that takes 20 minutes to tidy up - YABU

Jesus. You’re not smooth with your edit - people can still see what you’ve put.

.

Nobody’s perfect. If he’s generally a good dad and mess is his bug bear then it’s not going to have a massive impact on your daughter. Does he know much about kids development - maybe a book would help him understand how expectations. If it helps - I’m always complaining about the mess my boys make and they couldn’t care less! In one ear and out the other!

Other than the passive-aggressive comments, I’m also with your husband.

Your daughter needs to learn to tidy up her toys. She should tidy her toys before bed and yes, she’ll need help with it and that help might come from your husband while you do other things but as she goes to bed it should be tidy. If he isn’t getting home until 6/7pm that should be quiet time anyway so the only toys out should be puzzles or books. I’m fine with tipping crayons out whilst colouring but if DC wants to then play bricks, the colours all go away before the bricks come out.

Bath time - I don’t want to get wet either. We have no splashing while being washed. I will then then move from the side of the bath to the end of the bath so still in arms reach but mostly out of the splash zone and let DC splash for a few minutes before getting out. Throwing bath toys out of the bath - absolutely not. We don’t throw toys of any kind. That might be being 2 but it’s not acceptable to throw toys and they need to be tight this.

Bedtime we do 3 books. They can change their mind on the first page of a book and get a different one but any later than that and it’s tough they have to wait until the end of that story or until tomorrow. Changing their mind about books halfway through is part of the delaying tactics for bed. My child is also two by the way, so these things are not beyond a 2 year olds understanding.