To be devastated that my husband won't let our 2yo be a 2yo

He clearly doesn’t understand what it is to look after children and if he works full time, then he simply wouldn’t. He needs to recognise everything you do and how hard it is to be a SAHM.

He should spend a full day with your toddler on his own, only then will he really have any appreciation for what it is to look after a little human being. He needs to chill out and cut you some slack.

That is simply not true.

There's no way he can do bedtime duty because it would just stress her out - for example during bedtime stories if she gets out a second book or tries to colour and tips her pencils out, he will complain at her. The bath - same - why are you splashing water everywhere, why did you throw that bath toy out, now I'm all wet.

Why would she be tipping pencils out to colour at bedtime? What's the issue with trying not to get water everywhere? Perfectly reasonable to play with bath toys in the bath and to splash without getting water everywhere.

It'd annoy me coming from work to a mess to be honest, as long as there's accessible storage ie toy boxes or whatever, why can't she start to tidy up? It doesn't have to be serious, DS used to be fine popping his toys away to the tidy up song.

My DP is a SAHD and hates it when ALL the toys are out, however, he helps our DS put them away. “Ah great, are we building a tower with the LEGO now? Let’s put the jigsaws away so we’ve got plenty of room” that sort of vibe. Nagging a toddler for basically bring a kid a good way to suck the enjoyment out of parenting. He needs to learn how to communicate with her and probably spend more time with her. He should be able to put her to bed, it’s a nice thing to do when he’s not seen her all day.

This! I got a bit stuck with the " but they should play and .y dh just don't understand" etc.
When really he had a point!
I was setting no boundaries in the name of 'development' and ' free play' when really I was wrong

Yeah I would also say it's developmentally appropriate to be putting toys away!

I like the above suggestion.
Clean up sesh before you start cooking dinner and then one toy out. Ie puzzle, colouring etc.
She might not like the rule, but she'll soon realise the boundary.
And pp is right, such boundaries are everywhere.
As a side note, I think with our first we don't realise how capable they are.
By the time your 2nd or 3rd comes along they're doing wayy more at 2, but the first one we treat like a baby for too long.

PS : my dh also hates a mess, and we're trying to work through that.
I'm trying to be more understanding of the fact that coming home after a longgg day at work to a tip, must be so triggering. And he is more understanding of how hard some days can be with babies at home ( we have 3 under 4)
I will say, if it helps you OP, I spent a long time blaming my dh. 'you don't understand' ' days are hard' ' I was just going to get to that, it was clean earlier' until I starting doing some introspection.
Realistically I wasn't setting enough boundaries.
I was allowing them to eat a biscuit in the living room/ nursery because I was breastfeeding the baby there and 'it kept them busy'.
I was allowing them to tip allll the toys out because I was too lazy to spend 20 minutes facilitating clean up. It was easier cleaning it all myself when they were asleep
But really I was doing them no favours, I was depriving them of learning the skill of clean up, I was allowing them to behave unstructured , to make my own life easier.
It was a slow decline-by the time the 3rd came it was " easier" to allow them free reign.
But this bit me.
It's not good for them, they shouldn't live in a house were toys are scattered, what example am I setting.
It's better for me and my mental health, it's harrrd juggling everything you have to do while stepping on a Lego or spilled milk. 😅
It was better on my marriage. And sure my husband could have been more understanding, but he had a point!
And yours going "ooh you've been busy" is pretty mild imo.
I hope I don't come across as rude to you, just that we often tell ourselves a single story and this becomes the whole narrative.
"Dh doesn't understand, he's rude, and he doesn't even no anything about child development."
When really, multiple other things are true at the same time.

That's a leap! Sounds like he's nagging her passive aggressively through her toddler to me.

I had a similar trajectory. Sahm to working with young children.

With all due respect, there is no real comparison between the two spheres, and one should not be run as a launching pad for the other. The fundamental and most important relationships in a child's life are those within their own family, and these must be nurtured purely for their own sake, not with the next step in mind. Equally important is the child's developing sense of his or her own self - the feeling of being unconditionally loved and accepted is the most important one to nurture within the family.

The important sphere is home, where two parents can cooperate nicely together to pick up whatever toys are still strewn around at day's end, and the other is a group environment where it is imperative to maintain a good deal more order than is strictly necessary at home, and where there is generally an organised routine of activities of a loosely educational nature which the children are expected to participate in. A home can and should be far more flexible than an early years environment.

Children can profitably play whatever way they want to at home as long as safety isn't compromised and as long as they are not allowed to be destructive. It won't turn them into little hooligans at age 3 or 4. That comes from ill treatment of many kinds, from the subtle to the egregious. Yes, they can be gently encouraged into "helping" at home at an age/attention span level that is appropriate. The expectations expressed by many posters here are wildly inappropriate. Holding a child to inappropriate expectations is ill treatment.

The only children I've encountered in formal early years environments who have had problems adapting to routines, to tidying, to the social-emotional requirements of these environments (sharing, manners, peaceful dispute resolution) are children who have not been allowed freedom to just be themselves, who have not experienced loving patience on the part of their caregivers, who carry burdens of inappropriate and sometimes inconsistent adult expectations, and are treated as if they are nuisances in their own homes.

Of course.

The parent at home probably hasn't had the time to pick his nose all day, or the opportunity to finish a thought in his own head.

Do you consider yourself a kind person?
A person who is willing to walk a mile in someone else's shoes?
Or someone who feels the other person owes you something because you make more money than they do?

Do you think the person who has been at home all day dealing with shit, snot, tantrums, food thrown on the floor, constant interruptions, whining, getting their hair pulled, no privacy in the bathroom, and cbeebies would like to see the cheerful, loving face of someone willing to be a partner to them walking through the door, and hear friendly, encouraging words, or would they like to see lips curled in disapproval, and sneering about what they've been up to all day?

Sounds like my XH. I don't miss Christmas and birthday present unwrapping with him snapping at the kids for not putting the wrapping paper away the moment they open a gift.

Well If I came home after a day out or at work would it be OK for my husband to have the place in a mess?should I offer to tidy or act like it's no big deal?

For the same reason that you read books with, presumably, chapters and dialogue and complex plot, and 2 year olds read board books with simple rhymes.

Of course a 2 year old can make art with, say, 8-10 colours. Somehow I feel her creative spirit will survive such a restriction lol.

If he came home and said hello and then ‘oooo Lucy dinner is nearly ready, let’s tidy up these magnatiles!’ and then they did it together and nothing more was said then I’d think YABU. There is a huge difference between ’every toy we own is out and I haven’t tidied a single thing all day’ and ‘a 2y/o has been building with duplo while dinner cooked & now that toy needs tidying’.

Your DH needs to consider why his mental health as a grown adult (OCD/autism/whatever the issue) is the responsibility of a 2 year old to manage and minimise. Kids make mess, they splash in the bath, they drop cutlery or spill drinks. All a normal part of life, how he manages that is his responsibility and not hers. And if he can’t cope then he needs to see his GP and take next steps because it’s not fair to criticise and belittle a small child for being a small child.

But the fact it sounds like he’s a whining passive aggressive dick who does minimal parenting and is incapable of setting boundaries and being a parent, YANBU.

Why can't kids do a general tidy up (with the SAHM) before lunch, and another before tea time, though? Pretty sure that's what we all mean when we say tidy through the day.

I've three, had extensive maternity leaves with each, and personally feel that teaching tidying through the day to be a really useful skill and a good way to spend quality time together doing it.

You're replying to outlandish things that aren't actually being suggested.

No this is vastly over simplifying it- there's only a couple of replies that seem like this.

The consensus seems to be he's handling the situation like an absolute arsehole, BUT it is is not unreasonable to think that a SAHM with a cleaner could not help her single child tidy up throughout the day or after play, so it's not messy to the degree it needs a parent to dedicate a chunk of time tidying after dinner.

I would agree with that, myself.

How he communicates is concerning. The constant nagging and negativity and pick pick picking will have a long term negative effect. Does he talk to you like this generally too? Is he on the spectrum struggling with internal stress.when anything is out of place or is he intentionally manipulative. It’s concerning he can’t get to grips with 2 year old behaviour and is clearly not reflecting/learning and changing his behaviour. It might help him to take her to a couple of toddler groups so he’s thrown in the deep end and can see how other parents behave.

OP, I was a stay at home mum like you and very similar dynamic with my DH. In the end, we decided there would be one area where he could relax, eg. Living room, which would be clean and tidy. Maybe when he comes home, he could snuggle up with DD and watch some TV together.

Now I work with 2-4 year olds, I realise he was more right than I gave him credit for. I was a bit too 'free' and it didn't do my kids any favours. Children do need to learn not just have too much freedom to do whatever they want - and it does sound if you're a bit too close to that. She will only learn if you teach her and right now you're creating a child that will struggle at school to follow routines and listen to adults. She is 2 but she's learning to be 3 and you can have a higher expectation of her. Somewhere between the both of you is ideal, but instead of fighting your own corners, agreeing a compromise is best.

You've had some great advice on this thread. For example, I don't think DD should be getting pencils or toys out at bedtime. Maybe you need to transition her into being able to just have a story or 2 and he could do this if she learned (won't take more than a week if you keep saying, it's story time not playtime). She doesn't need to tip all her toys into the bath, just a few and certainly not chuck them out of the bath, which does deserve to be corrected. Maybe work with dh on HOW he corrects things, tone of voice rather than saying. Maybe figure out a routine together like TV, food, bath, then colouring and then story and do the same every night.

An excellent question there.

There are clearly many, many posters here who haven't spent a day with a two year old and have absolutely no idea how they play.

This silly notion that they engage with toys as designed, for starters, reveals a lack of understanding. Then we move on to ignorance of the freeflowing nature of play in two year olds. They don't move neatly from one activity to another, obligingly allowing the adult to engage them in clean-up because they've clearly finished.

They don't have a wide enough frame of reference to help them understand materials the way adults do, so they play with toys or materials in novel and fluid ways. It is hardly ever clear when one 'activity' is over and another one is beginning.

This is because 'activity' is the wrong term for toddler play. Very often, materials will be played with on and off every few minutes throughout the day, or co-opted from one enactment to another - a doll will be fed bits of Lego, crayons will be wheeled around in a little truck, blocks will be rattled in a bucket, etc.

Curbing this normal and natural type of play is pointless and not advisable. It's a case of poorly informed adults foisting their own preoccupations on the developing child.

I’ve got a 2.5 year old. Our house is carnage. I have daily cleaners. I’m slightly suprised by everyone saying to get her tidying away but I’ll try this and you’re right she does do it at nursery. To @anonymousi your DH doesn’t sound like he spends enough time really engaging with DD and getting used to way children play. I also think it’s a bit futile you both having very different ideas of how to parents. Suggest a frank conversation. Read the book you’ll wish your parents read by Philipa Perry for both of you and you could discuss to try to get onto same page more. You need to be a team.

I think there is a middle ground. I agree with posts that say learning to tidy is a good skill to develop.

How come meal times are taking so long to prepare or cook to the point toys are strewn everywhere in the kitchen to evening time when your DH gets home? I’m a relaxed person with mess to a point but I couldn’t sit on a mess all day to 6pm.

I’m a mum to a 2 year old and work PT. Doesn’t matter if working or not, there are lots of quick options for healthy and fast meal prep. Just something to think about (can you fast tack the cooking process?), might lighten your load not to be stuck for ages cooking and toys strewn everywhere. It might give you a little time to put your feet up and have a tea, if DD is busy with toys for a bit. Just get some big baskets and throw all toys in when not being used and teach DD to do this. Really fast way to clear space.

Whaaaa? if she can't see all her pencils at once she's got too many? I am an adult who does art as a hobby, and I have more pencils than I can see at once and YES, I need all of those colours. Why should a kid be deprived of the same chance to do art?

BS.
Does it make you feel better, attacking other posters personally??
You change your name often, don't you?
Team husband here, children should be taught discipline and there's nothing wrong with that.

Your husband is being a bit anal but there is no problem with saying to a child that you have to tidy your pencils away before you move on to the next game etc . If you start instilling being tidy at that age it won’t be such an issue later on when you want them to have relatively tidy bedrooms etc .

No, introducing clean up time and such is not harming her development but you know what is? Her father’s negativity and annoyance at her presence.

Op, that is genuinely sad. My heart breaks for your DD. My 2yo is allowed to tip her pencils, pull down as many books from the shelves as she’d like, splash water in the bath — heck, she’s even allowed to paint herself with her paints if that’s what she wants to do. …none of these things are worth getting stressed about.

to me it sounds like your partner has other stuff going on, because that’s just absurd to get so flustered over a child LIVING in her home.