Does anyone else feel this way about the education system in the uk?

I deeply regret sending DC to our local state school. It’s very socially and diverse in all ways like the place that we live. However poor behaviour has been off the charts resulting in 3 teachers resigning in DD1 year 5. DD1 is dyslexic and support for her was non existent as there was always someone in greater need even where we had agreed plans and frankly they knew she had a supportive family. She was always sat with poorly behaved children to mix the class up and had to explain work to them as “extension” but ignoring her own needs clearly ate away at her self esteem.

Socially we were particularly unlucky with our cohort, but there were little boys making sexual comments to girls clearly emulated from inappropriate parenting, children vaping, talking about killing prostitutes in grantheft auto, bullying the children in care, or with ESOL or SEN, swearing at teachers. Playing actual games seen as babyish!

It was an awful environment for DD1 and I can’t believe we accepted it for so long - probably gave too much leeway for Covid. We moved both DDs to private school partway through DD1 year 5 after the 3rd teacher left and the difference is astonishing. Night and day on inclusion, academics are far better (more differentiation and class discussion - less worksheets) teachers more nurturing and less strict because behaviour is better, none of the low level sexism racism and homophobia. Her friends boys and girls are all lovely, much kinder and everybody plays well together. Parents very mixed - some wealthy, plenty of professionals.

There are opportunities and nicer facilities but really it wasn’t the pull for us. DD1 is thriving and having been lost academically in her old school her prep are recommending some of the most academic secondary schools in the country. We knew she was bright but the really inflexible way she was being taught made her feel stupid and no-one cared about supporting her to her potential when there were plenty of kids with worse issues. DD2 is also thriving.

I was a bit naïve as me and DH both went to very good state schools. I stereotyped private school as braying over privilege and overlooked my daughter’s needs because of this. My “principles” didn’t benefit the local school, but it was really detrimental to my daughter. If you have a bad state school and can afford private I’d recommend giving it serious consideration.

I think the issue here is that you have a very narrow idea of the type of people that send their kids to private (or ‘independent’) schools. Most of them are just like you and your DH - ie normal families choosing not to send their kids to the local crumbling or over subscribed state school with huge class sizes, people from multiple economic backgrounds (plumbers, tv/film producers, accountants and actors, teachers etc made up the parent cohort at my kids’ school).

Ironically our private school was also more ethnically diverse than the local (and in our case oftsed outstanding) schools. Many of the children have SEN needs, such as dyslexia, dyscalculia, or are neurodiverse in other ways.

By sending my children to private school they actually have been exposed to a much much wider and far more diverse sector of society, not a tiny slither of one dictated by postcode, and are actually more tolerant, inclusive and worldly wise.

They should be doing that too. Some are and probably doing a great job of it. Some are just sitting back and saying that’s not good enough for my child but I have the money to throw at sending them to a private school.
It’s simply my opinion about what people who are considering private schools could do to improve the situation in state schools. Not offensive at all to all the other parents. Any supportive parent is always an asset to a school.

If all the parents of private school children did this then the education system would improve. @PoodleJ isn't that a bit insulting to the 93% of parents who currently use state? Why can't they do that? Why aren't they? Again, most PS parents are not oligarchs or MPs or persons of influence.

I believe natural ability, socioeconomic status and parenting has a far greater impact on people’s life chances than school choice. People seem to think if you send your kids to state school their lives will be ruined forever. In my profession I meet a mixture of people from state and private schools and I see no difference in ability or attitude. School is not the be all and end all. I excelled academically and have a masters degree, this enabled me to build a good career but I’m still out earned by someone I know who left school at 16 to learn a trade then set up his own business. I also know people who went to private schools who have really struggled to build a career and stick to it.

I would consider private if my DC were really struggling or having an awful time at a state school and there was no other alternative. I’ve always seen private schools as a bit of a waste of money not for SEN or kids who’ve had problems in the state system. and certainly not without their own problems.

What were they doing in the five schools op?

Go private if you can.

Your child could do other clubs etc to mix with people from different cultures and backgrounds.

FFS - not "the end". Did it occur to you that maybe there is more to the school experience that grade outcomes and jobs? Have you read ANY of the threads where people like me send their kids at huge detriment to their financial situation because their SEN and MH needs were unmet in state? My DS is likely to leave private ed next year with handful of grades 4/5. Its cost about 50k for the years he has been there but he is alive, not hurting himself and has some friends. He is just about now starting to recover from what happened to him in his state school. A bright kid in a poor school can be bullied to fuck and NOT do well "anywhere" and an average kid who isn't arsed to put in the effort won't necessarily do better at private. Its not just results and most people who send their kids private, contrary to MN myth, are not doing it to buy advantage or privilege, just a safe, happy place for their kid. They shouldn't have to pay to achieve that but until a government has the balls to increase income tax to adequately fund the state sector, that's what will continue to happen.

Best thing you can do then is to pick the best of the five options and get stuck into making it a better school. Be a governor, contact the local government representatives and improve it. If all the parents of private school children did this then the education system would improve.
Also, the amount of people saying that all schools are terrible have not been in enough schools.
I am a teacher in an inner city secondary school and I would happily send my children there if I lived closer. Stop peddling the myth that all schools apart from private schools are terrible. Private schools get more funding and have more supportive parents who also stump up cash for extra tuition when their kids fall behind.

It's a school where pupils are accepted based on their ability. So for clever kids basically

State secondary teacher here. I really feel how you value education at home is more important than what happens in the classroom. The books you read, the conversations you have, the opportunities you give your child. My DC are all state educated. Two of them have left school and are now studying at Oxford and Imperial College respectively. They also have the experience of having met and worked with people from all different sorts of backgrounds. I had a wobble in lockdown, when private schools were making up grades and we had to be honest, but I'm so glad we made the choices we did. It was a choice, because we could have sent them to private school.

We live in a global society though. Many of the students who do well are international students who wouldn’t get a visa to go to a state school. Many of the more academic ones are British citizens with parents who work for international companies. They are a very mobile group and will go where the schools are good. It might free up some spots at oxbridge but I bet they would just take more international students(who will nearly all be privately educated).

Given your description of the local offerings, I'd say it was a simple choice. It is the future of your child, built on education and network of friends. Maximise their opportunities where you can
Suck up your politics for your child's sake. Let's be honest, Labour politicians and party members happily send their children to private schools and have done for decades. 'Champagne socialists' will always be a thing

@Lifestooshort71 for goodness sake will people stop peddling this outdated crap about unqualified teachers in private schools. Its is rare these days, very rare and it is equally, if not more likely to happen in an academy state school. By all means have opinions and anecdata but base it on actual knowledge and current info. What happened decades ago is not helpful to an OP considering options now.

FWIW there was also a long thread about the value of qualifications related to teaching about how an individual who is a great communicator and know their way around a syllabus can be far better than one with a PhD but no rapport with children.

Ultimately, it is about the right school for the right child and less about private v state but I would echo what I said upthread about not assuming private schools are all filled with multi millionaires. They really, really are not and the definition of "wealthy" is definitely a flexible one.

My relative pays 3/4 of our schools fees. I also taught a summer school and a renowned private school this year. At lunch we ended up talking about families. For the majority it was grandparents paying the fees.

Someone might need to be wealthy but it isn't me.

I think in an ideal world, private schools wouldn’t exist. However, I don’t live in an ideal world, I live in this one.

My job as a parent is to give my child the best possible start in life. If the best option is a local state school, that’s fine, she’ll go there if offered a place. If the best possible option is a private school, and we can afford it and she can get in, then she’ll go there.

Do you mean England, as opposed to UK? Different parts of the UK have different systems.

Did they end up amazing? Not trying to be rude but the amount of privately educated kids I know ( all 25-30) have done nothing more than their publicly educated friends. Often worse. I just wonder what parents think they are buying? A smart child? Your child is going to be smart if you put them in public or private. The end.

Just to add, a lot countries have attractive visa/residency schemes to entice the highly motivated, academic children to private schools to their countries. They cost the state nothing and end up paying a lot of tax when they stay on. If you got rid of private schools in UK there are plenty of countries ready to welcome those children in.

@Diomi I think it would be better for society as a whole if most children were educated together, rather than a large number of clever/ wealthy ones being creamed off.

Obviously, children with special health needs/ disabilities who need specialist facilities are an exception. But other than that, in an ideal world, schools should be provided with the resources to cater for children of all abilities.

I think society works best when it functions as a whole and people have contact with others from all walks of life, rather than staying in bubbles of others who are similar to them.

It may well be a fundamentally different political perspective to yours and that's fine, I'm not particularly interested in arguing it and can pretty much predict what your counter-arguments will be.

I went to a grammar school myself and benefited from that education, but regardless, this is the way I see things.

And obviously, I have advised OP above that she should send her kid to a private school in the current context (and would do the same with the current state of schools). I am talking about in an idealised world.

Not in UK so can I please ask what a "grammar school " is? Is it the same as a selective high school here ( you have to sit a test and they take the most academic from a regional area).
Ta

I would like to know why you think private schools shouldn’t exist? I have worked in state schools for most of my career and had a brief stint teaching in private schools. 94% of children go to state schools. They come from a range of social and economic backgrounds. The existence of private schools does not have any impact on them. The school that sent the highest percentage of children to Oxbridge in 2023 was a state school.

From my experience, private schools educate a high number of children with SEND, some extremely academic students, a lot of highly motivated international students (who would never move into state schools, they would go private in other countries), some children whose parents went to private school and want their children to go and then quite a lot of children who have trialed state and left because it hasn’t worked (a lot of SEND).

The ones who get into the top universities (UK and increasingly US) tend to be from the extremely academic and highly motivated groups. Whatever you do to the education system in the UK, they will not be squashed. Not sure why you would want them to be.

There is enormous inequality in state schools. Some are amazing, some are mediocre and some are really bad. That is what people should be worrying about. Not a tiny amount of schools that cost the tax payer nothing.

HRTWT. My two twopennorth as a grandparent who was privately educated with 2 children and 2 grandchildren who weren't....
There is a thread somewhere on MN re unqualified teachers being employed at private schools.....
State schools are very dependent on the quality of their Head/leadership team which can change seemingly overnight (one grandchild was moved from an excellent secondary mid-term when new Head teacher held different values to the previous regime).....
First grandchild is aiming for Oxford next year from an unassuming school, and latest grandchild has just received top GCSE grades from mediocre state school by using private tutors 3 nights a week - constant parental input made all the difference....
Can you 100% guarantee to cope financially through the whole of the period if there was another bombshell like VAT or your jobs became unreliable? How many children are you planning on? Can you afford all the extras, skiing trips etc?
Just some thoughts.

People who pay for private are obviously wealthy otherwise most parents could afford it. 🙄

I want my child to know real people and not the top tiny percent of privilege.

You lost me there.