Does anyone else feel this way about the education system in the uk?

My kids’ private school educated 4 kids from the Ukraine (2 have just passed their A Levels and are going on to uni) and also has its fair share of ‘immigrants’ - a couple of Russian kids, a few kids from Ghana and other African states, plus a couple of US kids. We also have kids of plasterers and plumbers who arrive in their dad’s work van. But we also have kids whose parents have won Oscars/Emmies or who are tech moguls (the y11 after prom party was a blast - hosted at their mansion, security guards and a famous DJ). Society is diverse and complex.

Private schools are as reflective of global society as state schools. Probably more so given I live in an affluent m/c area where the parents/kids at the state school are all from the same demographic, are not in the least ethnically diverse, and the SEN kids have been managed out for fear of messing up their league table status.

No, but if you have two parents working full time, perhaps at the weekends in some jobs or with lengthy commutes, and/or no local family to help out, giving your children access to those activities outside school can be impossible.

Private schools work because they take on responsibility for the care of your children from 8-6pm, with no extra charges for care outside classroom hours (although they do charge for specific ECAs and music lessons). For many, picking up your kids at 330 and spending the next 3 hours ferrying them to clubs is not possible, whereas working to pay for it to be done on-site is.

@IVFmumoftwo you quoted me and said that does not always ring true. Can you be more specific? I don’t understand how anything that I’ve written relates in any way to whether or not schools (private or public) have a good mix of people from a variety of different backgrounds. I haven’t made any judgments at all about private or public schools in the UK. I’m not from the UK so I wouldn’t even be able to.

You’re right, they’re not but without the access to the teaching facilities only the top children (like your son) get a chance. Mine started in state, got ignored and demoralised but flew when we moved them. Would we have done the same if we’d had access to good local state provision, almost certainly not but not everyone is as lucky as your son. Our local state school didn’t offer music GCSE for example or triple science. I think private is the only option that a certain type of parent will consider but for the rest of us it’s about what our children need. My ideology would have preferred state but that wouldn’t have been right for the children.

See that's where I may be coming from it from a different angle. My son was band leader in his state high school and went on to make a tiny fortune busking and with gigs. He played sport on the weekend with the local soccer and cricket club. These are open to everyone. He's a lawyer now, but still plays footy on Saturdays with his friends. Music and sport are not only available to private school kids!

You would still have massive inequality in education. Some people value education far more than others. That alone creates inequality. Look at the school threads on here. Most are about absence letters, dietary requirements and the fairness of the uniform policy. Only a tiny handful are about the actual education.

Fortunately for you, the UK only has a tiny percentage educated privately compared to many countries, so you nearly have what you want!

sorry, I meant to add that we didn’t go down that route expecting their schools to turn them into academic success stories. For us, for example, smaller classes helped them to achieve their potential but it was mainly about the added value of extra curricular for us. If parents expect academic success it may not be the best option. A tutor could be more cost effective?

They did end up amazing but not just from an academic perspective. They had access to music, sport and so much more that we could not have given them because we don’t have the contacts or the inside knowledge. For us, the extra-curricular activities were essential. If a private education hadn’t offered that we may have made different choices.

Its not only systematic underfunding in state. There were large classes, shabby buildings etc in my mediocre state secondary 25 years ago. The issue imho is behaviour and it starts at home. Too many parents have taken the fad for "gentle parenting" to mean imposing no real negative consequences on their DC and not giving their DC the security and comfort of knowing mum & dad are in charge and responsible. It goes two ways - feral entitled disobedient kids, and anxious kids lacking self esteem or any resilience or ability to cope with disappointment or adversity. Social media and exposure to porn through lack of controls/phones given too young have worsened it all.

I genuinely think we'll look back on the generation born from around 2000 to 2020 or so in particular as having been completely failed by poor parenting, too much unfettered access to phones, porn & social media, and covid lockdowns. Of course within that generation there are thriving resilient young people but there's a hell of a lot who are not.

Its starting to shift - moves to phone free schools, much tighter internet and social media controls and a growing recognition that gentle parenting isn't being done right, are starting to bear fruit for the kids born now.

To answer the op - private schools escape these issues because:

• parents have paid for discipline and will support the school in imposing it
• they can select out kids who are more challenging to educate
• higher funding means a greater proportion of adults in school to compensate

My child's school has a mix of immigrants, working class families and people who own big houses so that does not always ring true.

@elderflowerspritzer

Well we are all different.

Precisely

Well we are all different.

@elderflowerspritzer

I'm talking about an ideal world, not the world we live in. We do the best with what we have, but I would rather it wasn't this way.

Doesn't sound like my ideal world.

@elderflowerspritzer everybody has an idea of what would make an ideal world (myself included) but most of us would not be happy living in someone else’s version of an ideal world. So, what truly is an ideal world?

But if private education just wasn't a thing at all, anywhere, none of this would be an issue.

I'm talking about an ideal world, not the world we live in. We do the best with what we have, but I would rather it wasn't this way.

With all due respect why don’t you and your husband choose a school that best suits your child rather than based on prejudiced opinions or stereotypes, or an us vs them mentality?

Look at the schools objectively (put your personal or subjective opinions aside). And pick a school that suits your child.

If you want your dc to be a decent person who doesn’t look down on people less well off, then give them plenty of opportunities to learn that through life. It is equally not ok to look down on people simply because they have a more privileged background than you or others.

School isn’t the only environment your dc will be exposed to. But, they will spend a lot of time there. It forms a major part of their education. And all children deserve to be in the kind of school that they can thrive in.

Denying your dc of the opportunity to be in the school that they will thrive in, just because not everyone can afford it, is not virtuous.

If private school is a better fit for your child and you can afford it then send them there. But, also provide other activities, opportunities, discussions outside of school to instil the values that you hold dear.

Also, in regards to your statement that: “Going to private means being forced with one section of society.”

Well, with that kind of logic, so does going public.

I think I was lucky when I was at school in 80s. My school had a vad reputation, but it was great. I was nurtured and taught well. A friend was at another school at other side of city-this school had great reputation- she said it was awful

I think state schools seem to have improved since my teens in the 80s-90s. The violence, gangs, weapons etc. have at least been acknowledged, if not sorted out, and some we visited when choosing a secondary school last year actually do subjects only private schools here did before, such as triple science, Latin, and a choice of modern languages. Another difference is that the schools actually check attendance now (back then students often hung out in cafes or bars instead and their parents weren't informed when they didn't turn up in the morning). This is in London, perhaps it's different elsewhere.

Very few we visited seemed interested in academic achievement beyond the basics, however: most of the heads and teachers focused on behaviour, SEN provision and vocational courses in the tours and talks.

We eventually found a small (still double the size of local private schools) academy, which has been ok so far, with very friendly and dedicated teachers.

You child is likely to be mixing with other children with parents like you though. Your argument makes no sense. Are you saying you are one of the elite? Unless you are looking to send your child to Eton, Harrow, etc?

I.work in a school classed as good. It's not. Think a lot of state schools could be so.much better if we went back to.bssics, had parental support and the support from.outside agencies that we need for the increasing numbers of pupils with poor mental health. I have nearly 30 years on state sector. There are of course some state schools where learning takes place, pupils are well- behaved and staff turnover is low. If you are lucky to.live in these areas great. In this scenario then I would not bother with private. Also there is no.point moving re a school as ethos etc can change very.quickly simply by change of staff. Do what is best for your child

So the OP doesn't want her child mixing with the top few %, but doesn't want her child mixing with a wide mix of ordinary either.

Depending on the school Private have a wide mix too, they just don't keep badly behaved, whatever the reason as keeping majority happy pays the fees.

I say this as someone who was invisible at secondary and massively underachieving and my kids went Private through scholarships although we were on benefits.

Been there done that. It’s very naive to think that you can change the culture of a school just by being an engaged parent.

I don’t think state schools good, private bad or vice versa. I hate the generalisations and ideology - and am very opposed to any notion that individual citizens or children bear responsibility for the quality of the education system.

for goodness sake will people stop peddling this outdated crap about unqualified teachers in private schools. Its is rare these days, very rare and it is equally, if not more likely to happen in an academy state school
Such a rude reply but I will answer it - one of my children IS a teacher at a private school and there ARE unqualified teachers there. Now, if you'd been a tad more polite we could have had a reasoned discussion, couldn't we?

@marmadukedoggo

Did they end up amazing? Not trying to be rude but the amount of privately educated kids I know ( all 25-30) have done nothing more than their publicly educated friends. Often worse. I just wonder what parents think they are buying? A smart child? Your child is going to be smart if you put them in public or private. The end.

Oh well, that must be "The End" then 🙄

My son attends private because both my husband and I were crippled with anxiety at secondary school. It was horrendous. My decision to put him in private has absolutely fuck all to do with grades. I'm not buying a smart child, I'm buying a happy one. I'm buying the assurance that he won't go through what I did. He'll not have to keep his head down and hide in a school of over 2000. He won't have to struggle through lessons with children who don't give a damn, and teachers who can't control them. He won't be frightened by violence and bullying.

My experience has marked me for life. I'm so glad my son won't go through that.

And before you ask "how do you know he won't?" Because, we know the school. It's a small local independent with outstanding inspections across the board. The staff truly know every single child there. He won't be lost in the swarm like I was.

A smart child? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

I take your point but let's be realistic. Changing things in the way you describe is not guaranteed, takes forever and a lot of personal time. By the time any real change is effected, the child in question will have aged out. It would be lovely to think everyone would be altruistic enough to put in all that time and effort for other children while their own struggles through, but it simply won't happen. It's not actually a parent's job to prop up the state system in the way you describe. Its like the gov now relying on food banks instead of dealing with the fact that people can't afford to buy food. State schools should be amazing through government funding and input for ALL, not relying on the goodwill and allegedly deep pockets of some citizens to the job for them.