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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is unfair of my employer? Or am I being entitled?

116 replies

Butamii · 16/10/2024 14:50

I work as an accountant, I have been in this role for 7 years. Recently published newly qualified accountant rates for our company are 60k. I am paid 61,500.

I have been back from mat leave six months and I raised the pay issue when I learned that we had a newly qualified accountant join our team on this basis, ie he is paid 60k. He has zero experience as he hasn’t ever practised before. I have not specifically mentioned him (yet) but it prompted me to ask about pay.

i have been told that pay is about various things and that I have flexibility in my role that also is a valuable thing to have. I have to leave early for pick up for my child for example. They are very flexible. For clarity they weren’t saying I am not paid more because I have flexibility but they were saying that I need to consider the whole package the company offers and that pay is also linked to expectations being met. I said I have never ever been told I’m not meeting expectations either before or after maternity leave. At this point they said it had taken me a while to get back up to speed after Mat leave… this was the first I have heard of that as I have had good feedback since being back.

anyway they have said they will ‘feed back’ my concerns to the top. For me this isn’t sufficient and I am now on the cusp of actually calling out this hire in our team and explicitly stating that they are paying a (male) member of staff almost the same as me when I have never been told I am not meeting expectations before and I am much more qualified.

Am I being entitled here? I guess they can do what they want really and I don’t know for sure what others are paid at my level but I suspect I am in the lower end as I am not sure many people would put up with this? I am not able to know other salaries, I only know the new starter as it’s published on the website.

OP posts:
Genevieva · 16/10/2024 16:46

They should have a published pay scale. Flexibility is, to my knowledge, not a factor that should influence pay scales. It is also something that women need more then men, so pay disparities based on caring responsibilities is a clear case of sex discrimination.

Mumofnetters · 16/10/2024 16:45

If it helps I’m 7 year PQ and paid £120k. £60k is standard for a NQ so I’d say you should be looking for £75k as a min. I’d fight it 100%.

museumum · 16/10/2024 16:43

You have to leave. Almost no companies recompense loyalty well. Many women stay because of maternity leave and flexible working but the only way to get more money is to jump. sorry.

Hunkydory99 · 16/10/2024 16:38

I don’t think the issue is what they’re paying new starters, it’s probably what the market demands but their value of you is the problem. Know your worth and look elsewhere, given what you’ve said they don’t value you. And stop working evenings/weekends and days off all you’re doing is lining their pockets with your free work.

Beautiful3 · 16/10/2024 16:37

Perhaps schedule a meeting with hr. Just for a friendly discussion about the pay and hiw they don't seem to reflect experience anymore. See what they suggest.

BobbyBiscuits · 16/10/2024 16:36

You certainly shouldn't be calling out the staff member who's new. They've done nothing wrong whatsoever other than accept a job.

I don't like the way they seem to be only telling you now that your performance seems to be somewhat lacking? If that was the case why not raise it in meetings to see what can improve.
Not suddenly come out with it as a reason why your pay is not seeming fair compared to an inexperienced new starter. Also just after mat leave? It looks a bit whiffy.

I think you need to speak to HR. Are they basically being discriminatory because you need flexibility, or are you genuinely working fewer hours/producing less work? I hope you get to the bottom of it.

DressOrSkirt · 16/10/2024 16:34

It's unfair but "calling out" the new hire won't achieve anything except alienating them.
Something similar happened where my DH used to work - the new hire was actually getting more than anyone else on the team, didn't have experience and apparently wasn't very good. When it was brought up to management all that happened was new hires going forward didn't get as much. My DH left very soon after for double the salary.

Westofeasttoday · 16/10/2024 16:30

Yeah you sound entitled. What other people are laid has nothing to do with you and frankly if 60k is the starting salary they may have moved this up and not the banding which means you are still on 61.5k. Can we assume you didn’t start there?

Also, as a women I resent you bringing gender into this. The new hire if they were a woman would be paid the same and your disappointment at not being paid the same shouldnt entitle you to play the gender card incorrectly.

BCSurvivor · 16/10/2024 16:29

OP, when you say you work weekends and annual leave, is that to make up the hours that you are not in the office when you leave early to pick up your child from school.
Do you also arrive later?
I completely get where you're coming from, re experience, but are you visibly in the office for a lot less hours than the new employee?
Would you have the same flexibility with a new company?

ChateauMargaux · 16/10/2024 16:28

17 years ago, 11 years post qualification, I was on 90k, 4 days a week, final salary pension, some extra hours and some flexibility to leave early 2 days per week.

Move... you will find another job. If you have a partner, get him to do pick ups and a 4 day week while you do the hours and prove your worth in the new job... then a couple of years in, you can see how to split this between you both.

This company sees you as someone who they do not need to treat well because you are a new parent, possibly holding on for a second maternity leave but who does not have the headspace to move. Prove them wrong.

I got shafted in a job after my first pregnancy .. was better than my colleagues, got a crappy payrise and a sideways move because I was not seen as ambitious. I took an internal move to another division, promotion, payrise, held the job open for me while I was the first division paid for my second maternity leave, and promoted me within a year of returning to a regional leadership position, still on 4 days a week.

Find someone who values you.

HappiestSleeping · 16/10/2024 16:26

I'm afraid you need to be looking for a new job @Butamii .

I have seen this time and again, and it always ends the same way. A company will usually try and keep their wage bill down, and an employee always thinks they are worth more than they are paid. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.

In your situation, I would probably go and look for another job. If you get an offer, but want to stay where you are, talk to your current manager before accepting and before resigning and don't do it in an ultimatum type way. This is a dangerous game though, for many reasons. Also, once you've gone down that route, you may well make the mental decision to leave anyway in which case, it is time for a change.

IchiNiSanShiGo · 16/10/2024 16:21

Can you check your HR policies and procedures? There’s often an equality type policy, usually has wording along the lines of equal pay for equal work in there somewhere. If that is in your staff policies, you could potentially use a that as a basis fr submitting a grievance.

rwalker · 16/10/2024 16:21

So the published rates start at 60k and they’ve started him on 60k

don’t make this about him if you thought you were worth more then you should ask for more irrespective if they’ve taken in new staff or not
it’s coming across as you are trying to spin this into disinformation and it about him being male

keep him out if it if I’ve understood right he’s started on the bottom of the pay scale and your higher up the pay scale

basically you work for a company who’s published pay scales don’t met your expectations

AnonymousBleep · 16/10/2024 16:19

That is absolute bullshit - they obviously expect that as they're offering you 'flexibility' as a mum they can pay you less, which is exactly why the gender pay gap remains entrenched in the workplace. Employees have the right to ask for flexibility, and your company's attitude is regressivbe and misogynistic. Probably easiest to leave but it's infuriating that companies get away with this - make sure you spell out exactly why you're leaving at your exit interview.

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:19

yeaitsmeagain · 16/10/2024 16:15

yeah I think it's terrible with teachers too, NQTs are on 30k and some of the ones who have been teaching several years aren't on that yet, let alone more. But they have to suck it up. It's just wrong.

They could quit

Notwhatuwanttohear · 16/10/2024 16:19

If you are not happy with your salary then leave and find somewhere else with a higher salary it's that simple.

You have tried to broach the subject and they're not interested that shows you what they think of you.

Calling out a new hires salary and trying to bring sexism into it is a road to nowhere and will make you look stupid unless you know and have evidence of female new hires being paid less.

Also working weekends and your days off is off your own back, stick to working your contracted hours, as you have found out you are just a number to them like most employees.

ManhattanPopcorn · 16/10/2024 16:18

You're on the mommy track.

If we don't call it out it'll never change.

GeorgiePorge · 16/10/2024 16:16

if they are sugesting your pay scale is linked to flexibility required for childcare then they are on dodgy ground.

you have the right to request reasonable adjustments..but you shouldn't in effect be charged for them.

you have more years post qualification but are you actually working in a senior capacity /different case load?

he must have some workplace experience or how has he qualified and got round the 3 year work requirement?

I agree with the PPs that moving jobs is the bedt way to secure a higher wage.

Assume who is, and also employs accountants...there is very little variance for years post qualification as the roles are large static on complexity. This is in business not practice though.

yeaitsmeagain · 16/10/2024 16:15

yeah I think it's terrible with teachers too, NQTs are on 30k and some of the ones who have been teaching several years aren't on that yet, let alone more. But they have to suck it up. It's just wrong.

ahemfem · 16/10/2024 16:13

EngineEngineNumber9 · 16/10/2024 15:23

This has been the way of things for years. I remember the same thing happened to me ten years ago. I’d been asking for a pay rise for years and always got pushback, then a new starter arrived and they were on my same salary even though I’d been there five years. I asked for a rise again and they said no so I quit and dropped them in it with only an unqualified newbie to sort it out.

This is the only way unfortunately. They won't just give you a pay rise if they don't think you'll leave

Seashellssanctuary · 16/10/2024 16:12

Not sure about others but our Civil Service dept has no progression pay so no matter how long you've been in a grade new staff will be paid the same.

There is a pay scale.... but never worked out what that is there for

Tiswa · 16/10/2024 16:11

Howmanycatsistoomany · 16/10/2024 15:19

This is what happens to longstanding staff, unfortunately. The new graduate negotiated his starting salary, can't hold that against him. IME the only way to bump your salary significantly is to move to a new company.

Twice (different companies) I've had promotions rolled up into my usual performance-related annual salary increase so the promotions (which came with considerable hikes in responsibility) actually only increased my salary by a really paltry amount. I voted with my feet.

Have you asked for detailed feedback on the expectations not being met/took a while to get back up to speed after Mat leave comments?

This - rather than focus on the fact his starting salary has increased this is about the fact yours has not - is there any scope for promotional levels eg to senior or something

Freshersfluforyou · 16/10/2024 16:09

As others have said... This happens all the time, and its a sign its time to leave. The grass often is greener, loads of employers offer flexibility now.
It was happening to me, so i left, i now earn nearly double what i was earning before and if anything my new job is easier.

Theextraordinaryisintheordinary · 16/10/2024 16:06

I’m with you

NotOneOfTheInCrowd · 16/10/2024 16:03

It’s fairly standard for new starters to be paid the same as or sometimes even more than existing people in the same role.

It’s a known fact that to earn more money you need to get jobs with different companies because the margin for pay increase is higher.

It’s not necessarily fair but it’s a fact of business.