To think this is unfair of my employer? Or am I being entitled?

Not seeking to derail the thread but can I check...

Is this London?

I'm SE (Sussex/Kent border), on my final ACCA exam in December and on £30k at the moment wondering what a reasonable uplift might look like to negotiate/ up sticks for new position. I'm seeing anything between £35k-£50k on LinkedIn ads sent to me and worried about looking like a delusional twerp if I want to explore the higher end roles.
Management accountant / finance business partnering in industry rather than practice.

Thanks x

This is why so many employers try not to publish salary on their job ads. It’s really common for new hires to be paid the same or more than existing employees. They won’t want to pay existing staff more unless they kick up a fuss, they want to keep their payroll bill as low as possible. If everyone has the flexibility benefit, you’re not benefiting any more than anyone else so that’s disingenuous.

More often than not, if you want a raise you have to move. I was in the same org for 10 years, but have moved every 2-3 years over the last 10 and my salary has more than doubled.

Time to move. Sitting still doesn't get you anywhere.

I am in a similar position OP.

A new hire on the same level as me recently started on £5k more than me but is not the de facto deputy when our manager is away.

I made an official complaint and as a consequence my dept is on the cusp of a reorg with hopefully a pay rise for me and a more senior role.

But I had to go scorched earth and threaten union involvement to get any resolution. Funnily enough I've just been head hunted with the role £13k more than I'm on now so I know I'm being underpaid.

Unfortunately this seems very common now.

I’m in the public sector and we’re all paid the same whether we have 25 years experience or 2. The only difference is that the parents get carte blanche to pick their kids up and not make up the hours, whereas the rest of us have to make time up for medical appointments etc. So technically if you’re a parent, you’re paid more (fewer hours) than if you’re not.

If you can get better elsewhere then go for it?

Sorry more to add, if the above ^ is correct and he’s a senior associate on £60k, the problem is that he’s being wildly overpaid rather than you being underpaid.

I would ask your employer for their salary ranges per grade and from there a salary increase.

It doesn’t hurt to put your feelers out, apply for jobs and do some interviews just to see what else is out there. 7 years is a long time to be in a job these days and there’s no reward for loyalty.

That’s a bullshit answer from them designed to get you to shut up.

You should ask for a formal pay review and bring examples from other companies and that new recruits are being paid minimally under you. If anything, being able to meet your expectations while working flexibly is a sign of your higher value. Don’t allow them to equate flexibility with pay. Flexibility is a company policy, of which new recruits are also afforded if needed. Pay is your value as an employee.

So if your charge out rate is £180 more an hour, you must be like a senior manager and the new starter is senior associate level? And you’re paid the same??

If he’s a qualified CA he has to have done his 3 years or whatever so he just have some experience surely.

Sounds like out-and-out sexism to me. And they're now taking the piss because they think you'll put up with it as the job fits around childcare commitments.

It seems like that to me, too. I've seen it happen a lot over the years, in different sectors.

Do those who go pick up etc make up the time?

Just a word of caution: the job market is pretty tough at the moment, according to a few friends who have been looking. So IIWY I'd keep my powder dry, apply for other jobs, negotiate more money elsewhere and the same or improved flexibility in a new job, then leave. It's much easier to get a new job when you're already in a job.

Everyone who says raise a grievance etc isn't living in the real world and IMO this isn't likely to end up getting the result you want, it'll just piss people off.

I agree it's rubbish that a newly qual is getting £1.5k less than you, it's not their fault though, as many others have said so leave them personally out of it.

And it is not ok if suddenly a performance issue that has never been mentioned before is raised when you raise a pay query. Or if your flexible arrangements are conflated with the pay (assuming you work the same hours as everyone else).

In your position I'd get another offer then decide whether to accept a counter offer from your existing employer or jump. Good luck.

Find another job and see if they then offer you a rise. They may just say ‘congratulations, bye’ of course.

Have they just published this particular individuals wage (which would be weird) or have they published that all new starters will begin on this?

I'd not make it personal to the new hire as this is spiteful tbh, but focus on your worth and negotiating a fairer wage for you. It's not unusual for new starters to get paid more to entice them in, I'd concentrate on focusing in on the rest of the market.

This! Absolutely this!

Job hopping has increased my salary by 36% in the last 2 years. It's really sad that loyalty isn't rewarded. Long term staff are usually always shafted.

Confused about the collecting your child thing.

Are you saying you leave on time, to collect them from daycare on time? Had years of this so if so I get it, but it’s not flexibility.

Or are you saying you regularly leave before your scheduled finish time, collect your kid and take them home? Based on a formal flexibility request in place?

Or are there occasions when your regular pick up person lets you down last minute, so you need one offs - technically akin to dependants leave, which is allowed for you to make arrangements in unexpected urgent situations?

If you leave officially early, are you making the time up?

And if everyone in the team is doing it - who’s left holding the office baby, matey new bloke on the 60k?

The only way to deal with this is to get a job offer elsewhere. That's the only want we're allowed to give out of cycle pay rises these days.

I appreciate you have more experience, but is your workload/skill demand very different?
I am paid the same as people with 10 years less experience than me, but the job role/person spec is the same so the pay is the same.
People get caught up in evaluating their skills/knowledge when working out what they should be earning, but they actually should be looking at what skills does their current role need. I may be able to fly a jumbojet, but if my job doesn't need that skill then I'm not going to get paid anymore for having it.

I am afraid the only effective solution here is to find another job - that’s the best way to meaningfully increase comp. Obviously, it comes with a bit of an upheaval but that’s how it is.

Going forward, you should be negotiating salary increases regularly. Doing that and benchmarking the market is good career hygiene really.

Referring to the new hire will achieve nothing. Employers do what works in a given market. If you position is in demand and it will be difficult /more expensive for them to replace you, then it’s a much better vector to pursue.

To be honest, the concern over pay scale revealing who’s paid what wouldn’t bother me. Better that than a situation where a lack of transparency leads to pay disparity or suspected pay disparity.

Nooo, you did the right thing to raise the question. Given the pay for the new starter is on a website and therefore not secret you should point to it and ask about the small wage gap between you and him.

Do your research and start applying elsewhere.
Weigh up whether to use your newly found info to stay and negotiate or leave to pastures new
Good Luck

On the first part I'd say it depends on the size of the business. I run a small company and if I had a published pay scale I'd literally just be telling everyone what everyone was earning as everyone is on a different level!

On the second part, however, I wholeheartedly agree. Perhaps factor a version of this into the conversation.

Bigger businesses do, I believe, have to report on gender pay gap, which would be very interesting in their case if OP's example was common.

Definitely dont use anyone else to compare yourself with. I have seen people say this and it backfires on them.

The flexibility is important to you. Would you get this anywhere else with a higher salary. Would you consider leaving? If the answer is no to these questions then think very carefully how to handle this. You need to show your worth and use appraisals to back this up. Various examples of when you have done good word and had feedback on your work. That way they wont want to lose you but be prepared to think about leaving if they wont give it to you.

When you say you have to collect your child... and that everyone does this? Well, certainly the new starter doesnt. Are you sure its everyone?

I am an owner of a firm of accountants (probably in a very different location though as our qualified starting rates are much lower!) and you are not being unreasonable.

What is your hourly charge out rate compared to the new starters?

Either their starting rates are too high when compared with the market or they're placing too much "value" on their flexibility for your pay. Have they struggled to recruit new starters in the past? Is there an indication that they only got these staff because they're willing to pay more?

Presumably you're working the same number of hours as they are?

If going rate is really about £68-79k for your position you could probably get a 4 day a week part time role with another firm for more money than you're currently paid!

Speak with a recruiter and see what they would say about your role. Use this as ammunition to go back to your employer.

"Following on from our recent conversation, it has come to my attention that newly qualified starters are earning only £1.5k a year less than what I'm earning. You mentioned before that my pay reflects some additional flexibility in my position, but I ultimately still work the same hours, at a higher level, than new starters and I don't think the ability to work from home occasionally [or whatever the flexibility is] should have that big a difference in my pay.

I have researched the market and the going rate for my level of experience is up to £78k per year. I do not expect to earn that much here, given the accommodations I have around family life, but I would appreciate the ability to renegotiate my contract."

You're not then specifically saying "or else I'll find somewhere else", but it is implied.

Their response will indicate how much they want you to stay.

When I handed my notice in at my previous firm, they came back the same day, offered me a new salary and a new location to try and convince me to stay.

I have a member of my team that isn't great at their job and if they came to me and asked for a pay increase, I might hold my ground (as, in their case, they definitely don't deserve any more) and if they choose to move on, so be it.