Thoughts on schools with high SEN population

The national average is 13.6% SEN in the primary school population, so in your standard class of 30 that's 4 children needing some sort of extra support. Of course that's an average and some schools will obviously be lower but there has definitely been an increase in SEN in recent years, I would think most schools are around average rather than there being a lot of extremes.

I work in a school that has high levels of SEN children. We have a very good reputation for working with special needs. You might say we are a victim of our own success because the better we are, the more the word gets round and we then attract even more pupils with high levels of need. The downside is that we are now at a tipping point where we have children that cannot cope in a mainstream classroom but no physical space to accommodate them elsewhere in the school. The school I work in was originally a village school with mixed age classes. Over the years the classrooms have been split in half so each year group is taught separately. Our playgrounds are tiny and we do not have a field or any other space to build. Our hall doubles as a dining space at lunchtime. SEN children are therefore in class with everyone else. As a result the rest of the class are now being disadvantaged as they are not getting the attention they need and academic standards of the average child are now slipping. We have 1 class that has 33 children 6 of them have high levels of need. 4 have EHCPs the other 2 on the SEN register. Think non-verbal, still in nappies, aggressive -biting, spitting, punching, head butting. There are 3 TAs and the class teacher. That’s 37 bodies in 1 class which realistically should only really have about 20-25 children in it. It’s very noisy. One of the children is autistic and hates noise so spends most of the time under a table with ear defenders on with his hands clamped over the top to drown out the noise of the other autistic child who is screaming constantly. It’s not fair on anyone least of all the SEN children. These children are all waiting for special school places. This is just 1 class, we have 3 other classes that have similar levels of need, although the overall numbers are lower as there are less than 30 children in those classes. Other local schools to us also with good reputations are reporting similar numbers. It is madness and is the main reason why this will be my last year in education.

It seems to be an assumption that it's compulsory. And tbh I think a refusal to go on it often causes problems for other kids. I don't understand why it's non-compulsory if I'm honest. If your child needs extra support they need extra support. Why would you actively against that? In terms of being discriminated against, if you are at the point of meeting the threshold to be on it, then the teachers ALREADY effectively have 'marked your cards' if they are that way inclined.

Wouldn’t that be because the combination of needs and diagnosis reached the threshold set though? I don’t think anyone has ever said that being on the SEN register is compulsory, in fact here parents have to sign it on a regular basis and provide their consent. It’s not automatic.

Go with your gut.

Most/many schools their SEN provision is poor. Most sn parents aren't happy. It's nice to see a few sn parents on this thread who are happy with their schools sen provision.

I was asked two weeks ago whether we wanted our son to be on the SEN register or not following a diagnosis.

It was not up to the LA to decide that he went on automatically. Equally there must be a criteria which you have to be over the threshold for to be on it. But it certainly ISN'T compulsory - the whole conversation was about the pros and cons of it and why some parents are extremely resistant to the idea, and we raised questions about certain scenarios if you weren't put on the register...

There are other parents who clearly refuse to go on it, despite a fairly compelling need for their child to be on it though.

The difference between a 'good' school and an 'outstanding' school can be marginal and dependant on the mood of the inspectors on the day. Read the full report for the good school and see why it missed out on outstanding - it might well be on a single point you don't see relevant to your kids.

The important point is that you get the 'right' school for YOUR child. That could be different to the next parent.

If you have a class with lots of high needs, the quiet kids of average ability disappear. The brightest ones tend to do ok still. Its the quiet ones who aren't going to get progression scores and meet all their targets that are the ones who aren't worth the time of the staff. They simply are down the priority list.

Might be unfair / not regarded as something we should say but the school re judged on progression scores and they are judged on SEN provision. The others have a certain level of invisibility...

Honestly, couldn't believe what I was reading 🥺

I didn't say it did. I said schools don't list diagnosed SEN on their population statistics.

I know – all I am saying is that schools don't list pupils with a diagnosis on their populations stats.

DH works in mainstream education and it’s often not children under SEN who are ‘demanding attention the loudest’. It is indeed more behavioural issues, often the ‘typically developing neurotypical’ children who are disrupting class. But let’s face it, it’s far easier to just blame children who are already at a disadvantage…

I don’t think that you can argue that a private school will manage SEND better than a state school. You reference dyslexia. SEND covers a much wider range of need, so maybe your experience is quite narrow. Plus, as has been said, private schools are in a position of being able to reject pupils who they choose not to have.

I’ve worked in state schools who cater well for children with a wide range of need and I’ve worked in schools that don’t.

A nurturing environment is important, I believe and a school that caters for all, is likely to be that. Go with the gut feeling. If you feel comfortable, your child probably will.

Where I live the LA sets the criteria for who is on the SEN register and who isn’t, and it has nothing to do with what a child is diagnosed with or awaiting an assessment for.

I wouldn’t send my kids to a school that felt chaotic.

SEN support will be formally on the SEN register which many SEN children aren’t, regardless of whether they are diagnosed or not.

An EHCP doesn’t mean a child isn’t diagnosed. I have three children diagnosed with ADHD and/or autism and only one has an EHCP. All are on the SEN register though.

Sorry, but this matters to me. You said

Schools list their population statistics as both % with SEN with an a EHCP and % requiring SEN support – the latter not being diagnosed. It depends what high rate OP is referring to.

It matters because there is a section of society, many of whom post on MN, who think that as soon as you get a SEN diagnosis, someone hands your child an EHCP and unlimited funds for support, and the reality is not that.

And what exactly are you scared the SEN kids are going to do? You have an outstanding school but you think by having SEN kids there, your kid will not have a good education. Or so you think the SEN might rub off on him?

What if your kid acts up, doesn't listen or isn't academic. That would disrupt other kids education.

And...what...just maybe....your child has SEN not yet diagnosed? How will you cope?

Unbelievable.

SEN is such a broad category that it is hard to tell
Unfortunately from the stats you will never know whether it is 10 kids struggling a bit or 2 prone to throwing chairs round the room.

My dd goes to a school with a high proportion of SEN and she also has SEN and a EHCP. To be honest, it should be fine. Nowadays thers no TA in class and my daughters funding pays for the only class TA. But for my dd that's bad news as she has two disruptive kids who take up the TA time ( one TA sticks yo her ehcp, one doesnt).

Will they all go to the same secondary? Imo your better off at a smaller school but then secondary will be a shock if it's huge

You are describing our primary and it is a school that does NOT get it right for SEN children. In fact they struggle to control the classroom and end up failing both SEN and non-SEND kids. If they were getting it right then the SEN children would still be there. It speaks volumes that they left.

No I didn't say that. The previous poster said "High numbers of SEN actually means high rates of diagnosed SEN". I replied when schools list their population statistics they list 1. % of pupils with a SEN EHCP and 2. % of pupils with SEN support. I didn't say these are children without a diagnosis, just that schools do not list % of pupils with diagnoses.

This may sound really obvious- but - when you’re looking around, seeing the other children, the outside space, where they’ll have lunch etc pay particular attention to the classroom where your child will be- think about whether you feel you could spend several hours there each day yourself and that will be your answer

But you’ve said that the stats are children with an EHCP and children requiring SEN support who are children without a diagnosis.

This is not the case. Many children with diagnosed SEN do not have an EHCP. This can be because their support needs do not meet the threshold for requiring an EHCP or because the current appalling system has let them down.

Undiagnosed children may well sit outside the stats altogether, although a school good with SEN will be putting things in place which, I agree, would bring them in.

It’s a fallacy that any child with a SEN diagnosis immediately gets an EHCP and lots of extra support.

It really doesn’t mean anything unless you know what Sen needs surely ?
my daughter is highly complex Sen needs both medically and ASD / language communication disorder and cerebral palsy. She has a 1-1 and has been in mainstream her whole school life now in last year. She has never ever distributed the class.

high Sen needs doesn't necessarily mean it’s behaviour based.