Thoughts on schools with high SEN population

Exactly. I was actually surprised by this, because I was under the impression that children were automatically counted if they met the threshold for a diagnosis or disability.

It means those numbers are, in practice, pretty meaningless and can give a false impression of the ACTUAL needs within a cohort.

While this is obviously true of the conditions and disorders that cause a need for SEN support, if a school poorly manages their SEN provision and class management then the need for SEN support can indeed be ‘catching’. Young children going into a poorly managed behavioural environment will likely mirror other children’s behaviour.
Hell yes. We lived through that, whilst another parent was in denial about their child's needs. We had to force issues because of the safeguarding implications for DS (it actually probably was a blessing that DS was under assessment for his own needs because we couldn't be phobed off as easily). One child not being managed adequately has massive implications for the rest of the class.

But thats part of the point here - one school with 6 kids in a class with SEN needs might be managing that well, whilst another school with 1 kid in the class with additional needs and resistant parents (and therefore not even on the SEN register) might be causing total chaos at the expense of all the other kids.

I'll admit here that when applying for my eldests reception I deliberately chose a school which had a much lower than national average SEN pupil numbers - lower ofsted rating (good) - there is another school just up the road which has an excellent reputation for SEN education support (ofsted rating outstanding) and is actually our catchment school but I didn't put it down.

Remember too that you can't catch SEN from other children.

While this is obviously true of the conditions and disorders that cause a need for SEN support, if a school poorly manages their SEN provision and class management then the need for SEN support can indeed be ‘catching’. Young children going into a poorly managed behavioural environment will likely mirror other children’s behaviour. I have seen a class where 13 of the 16 boys in the class were placed on SEN support just to manage the class’s behaviour. Most of these boys were taken out of the school and their requirement for SEN support disappeared in the better environment.

As you said, however, the numbers don’t necessarily matter, how you feel about seeing the school in action does.

Knock it off. OP is looking out for her kid, and has a right to consider the options carefully.

Last year my daughter and her friend were repeatedly attacked by a kid with SEN (pushed to the floor, kicked), and this year she's come back with pinch marks on her arms from another child with SEN. And that's in a class with relatively low SEN numbers.

Why are you pretending this doesn't happen? It happend to me at school and it happens every single bloody day.

You're going to get picked apart by people who feel defensive here.

But yes, we faced the same conundrum last year - larger 'excellent' school with high SEND population, or smaller school, 'good' with lower SEND cohort. Chose the smaller school, hands down right decision.

There's a whitewashing in these replies about what it means to be in a class with a lot of SEND kids. There will be disruption, and there will be behavioural problems. Having gone to schools like this myself, I wouldn't send my kid if I didn't have to.

My DD understood different behaviour expectations for children with SEN that impacted their behaviour when she was in nursery. You just need to give an age appropriate explanation.

My child has SEN and I have rejected a school with a high level of SEN that was SO chaotic when i viewed it. I know my DS would not be able to focus, he needs a school that is quieter otherwise he would join in the chaos.

I'm chosing a school with good SEN reputation but also manages to keep kids quiet and under control! (And it's academically great)

In a poor school, yes.

And there will still be children who aren't classed as SEN but live with them.

But that is the point. A diagnosis is not required to be classed as having SEN.

It was me that posted about diagnosed SEN. The point I was trying to make is that published numbers don't tell you anything about the actual prevalence of SEN. Which is woefully under diagnosed and under recognised. Especially in KS1.

The prevalence of children who are Neurodivergent will always be higher than the published numbers of those with agreed/diagnosed SEN and / or those with an EHCP.

I would advise any parent to be wary of choosing a school on the basis of low SEN numbers. It might just mean they are really poor at identifying and supporting those children.

Remember too that you can't catch SEN from other children.

This story here, whilst perhaps at the extreme end, is why I wouldn’t be comfortable putting my child in a school with high levels of SEN children.
I am not saying that SEN children do not deserve to have an education. But why must it be at the expense of other kids?
Im not sure what age range you are teaching… but how on earth would you explain to a non-SEN 6 year old (for example) why so many of the other children in there class are behaving this way? This will appear to be a very low bar set for behaviour to a small non-SEN child… they can’t be expected to understand the complexities of the conditions these children have and it’s not fair that they should have to be taught along side them. Unpopular opinion, I know, but it’s just lowering the bar for everyone isn’t it?!

I never said it mattered. Some commenter way up the thread said high numbers of SEN only means high rates of diagnosed SEN. I said that wasn’t the case and now it keeps being regurgitated.

It is important because some on this thread have posted ‘diagnosed SEN’. The legal definition of SEN does not require a diagnosis. A pupil may have SEN, and thus be counted in the % receiving SEN Support, and not have a diagnosis. Similarly, a pupil may have an EHCP, and thus be included in the % with EHCPs, and not have a diagnosis.

Why does the diagnosis part matter? Many may be waiting for a referral or assessment and many may never get one.

Yes, this.

Yes, I know the gov pages you are talking about. Those numbers are not accurate to how many children actually have a SEN diagnosis. In my son’s previous class there were four children with a one plan who did not have a SEN diagnosis. My son was also given a one plan by the school when he was five due to a particularly bad bereavement, but no SEN diagnosis.

Pupils don’t need a diagnosis to be on the SEN register, classed as receiving SEN Support or to have an EHCP.

No, it’s literally numbers, for example ‘children under SEN 175’ children with an EHCP 12’

If you search the specific school, gov website and it should take you to the page that gives you this info, sorry I’ve forgotten what it’s called. On any school SEND policy it should have the exact numbers too. Of course it won’t tell you that nature of each child’s SEN, that private.

Those % don’t tell you how many SEN diagnoses there are in a school. A child can be receiving SEN support and not have a SEN diagnosis and vice versa.

Well that’s not me and that’s not what my comment implies. I am saying that you can’t know how many SEN diagnoses there are in a school because a school only lists % of pupils on an EHCP and % of those on SEN support. There is no % for those with a SEN diagnosis.

My son had SEN. He went to a local mainstream primary school with a high percentage of SN children. I was already aware that the school was well equipped and welcoming to SN kids so I had no concerns. All of his little non SN friends who went with him all did exceptionally well too. An all round nurturing school will look after all its pupils.

A high level of SEN is likely to mean that they are good with SEN children and so word has gone round that they are, and so SEN parents often pick them. It might be that what you describe as "chaotic" is actually "flexibility" allowing pupils who have seriously uneven profiles to succeed, where other schools can't meet all their needs. This could be BRILLIANT for some children, but it doesn't mean it should be "brilliant" for your child.

What I think you always need to remember when looking at schools, is that they will all be slightly different and that is fine because children are all different. Unless there is a school that seems right for your child, but has something really concerning in an Ofsted report or something, I would focus on what your child needs and not worry too much about whether the school is "brilliant" or not for other kids.

They do - on the gov website you can view how many children are under SEN and how many have an EHCP per school. Not all diagnosed children / young people have an EHCP either. Its needs based.

Trust your gut feeling rather than paperwork.