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Is this normal? Nhs employees

58 replies

Chiefspidercatcher · 15/10/2024 19:35

I don't think it is. Or it shouldn't be.

I work in a GP practice. Not long started.

I've witnessed a newbie given a 'spare' smart card (which belonged to a colleague on leave, a spare for them sonehow the practice manager has) to access eg emis while training before newbies own smart card arrived.
So colleague was on leave but there's logged actions throughout the system that they eg ordered prescriptions, blood tests etc as their smart card was used.

I had a patient complain earlier this week about a request not done from a week prior. I checked the system & was shocked to see my own name logged as the person cancelling their request. I didn't remember doing this & am v careful. When I got home later I checked my shifts & I wasn't in work when it was done so someone must have a spare smart card for me & be accessing the system using my profile.

I feel like the risks & ramifications are huge.

Am I overreacting? Does this go on?

I'm trying to decide how to proceed. I'm concerned about patient security & confidentiality being compromised. Also the risk of reputational damage to me or anyone else whose card is being used by someone else for goodness knows what.

I think the PM is likely the one who has the spares & letting certain ppl access them. However we are a small practice & she'd also be my point of contact to raise issues to so I'm not sure which way to move forward. ICO suggested whistleblowing. Has anyone else been in a similar position?

OP posts:
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GrouachMacbeth · 16/10/2024 07:02

Log it as a whistleblower - at least there will be a paper trail. Also if in England the Cqc could be advised.

rubyrubyrubyrubymurray · 16/10/2024 06:58

Reading back through this is absolutely and utterly wrong on so many levels.

No one should ever be able to use your smart card or know your login pin.

Please, please whistle blow. For the patients sake.

rubyrubyrubyrubymurray · 16/10/2024 06:53

As a HCP in a GP practice this is an absolute and utter no go. If needs escalating. If they're doing that, god knows what else is going on!

Ineffable23 · 16/10/2024 06:37

Every practice is obliged to have a data protection officer. That person is usually supplies by your local ICB.

If you contact your ICB's data protection team they will be able to locate the relevant person for you. You can often do this through an FOI email address if you can't find anyone else as they tend to sit in adjacent teams if not the same team.

bergamotorange · 16/10/2024 06:29

Chiefspidercatcher · 15/10/2024 23:04

We are all given a passcode when PM sets us up with smart card that relates to the long number on the card. So we can all use each others in effect by reading the digits we all know the PM uses to set up, unless others have changed their codes.

This passcode practice also needs reporting.

It's scary how lax the behaviour is.

Bobbie12345 · 16/10/2024 06:01

That is awful. When I have worked with smart cards the first swipe of the day still needs a name and a password used. It has then worked as fast access into the system multiple times that day (sometimes requiring a password input if you have been away for too long. )
The same smart card could absolutely be used by someone else a different day. But they would need to enter a user name and password at the start again.
You should 100% never be in a situation that someone can log in as you though. That risks massive privacy breaches that would land in your lap.
Good luck figuring it out.

HMW1906 · 16/10/2024 05:54

Chiefspidercatcher · 15/10/2024 23:04

We are all given a passcode when PM sets us up with smart card that relates to the long number on the card. So we can all use each others in effect by reading the digits we all know the PM uses to set up, unless others have changed their codes.

You really need to get that passcode changed a when mine was set up I was asked to put a code in whilst the person setting it up looked the other way so no body knows my passcode or has any reason to.

Gettingbysomehow · 15/10/2024 23:17

I'm an nhs podiatrist and I can tell you that this is ABSOLUTELY not allowed and needs to be reported.

Chiefspidercatcher · 15/10/2024 23:04

HMW1906 · 15/10/2024 22:54

This is against all NHS GDPR, information governance and data security policies. You need to report it. I would also suggest you ask for the spare smart card that is in your name so that it can’t be used again. If there’s a patient incident and your names if flagged then unless you can prove you weren’t on shift then you could find yourself in a sticky situation (although I’m unsure how they are using it without your password/PIN number).

We are all given a passcode when PM sets us up with smart card that relates to the long number on the card. So we can all use each others in effect by reading the digits we all know the PM uses to set up, unless others have changed their codes.

OP posts:
Henchilada · 15/10/2024 22:54

This is massive. You do need to report to protect yourself, and need to report as duty of care within your role. You need to be defensive in how you do this.

In an NHS Trust you would definitely use freedom to speak up guardian for whistleblowing.

You could email (so in writing) the PM copying in senior partners and your union rep. This would mean you have followed correct procedure but also means it cannot be covered up by the PM. Include precise dates and times as your evidence (screenshots may not be possible) as this is how an HR investigation would be conducted. Be utterly factual, do not include supposition or hearsay, but just state the known facts about your own case (evidence things were entered under your name whilst your were away, precise dates and times, you can name the patient this happened for - they will search the system for this evidence after).

HMW1906 · 15/10/2024 22:54

This is against all NHS GDPR, information governance and data security policies. You need to report it. I would also suggest you ask for the spare smart card that is in your name so that it can’t be used again. If there’s a patient incident and your names if flagged then unless you can prove you weren’t on shift then you could find yourself in a sticky situation (although I’m unsure how they are using it without your password/PIN number).

Ohnobackagain · 15/10/2024 22:36

@Chiefspidercatcher what @godmum56 said

Ohnobackagain · 15/10/2024 22:35

@Chiefspidercatcher using someone else’s credentials to login is fraudulent. In most places it would be a sackable offence/gross misconduct.

Perhaps the way to handle it is to ask ‘how come these transactions are recorded against my ID when I wasn’t in the office, wasn’t working and had my card in my possession?’

BenditlikeBridget · 15/10/2024 22:31

This is awful and would be gross misconduct where i work.

And that’s without even considering WHY someone has used YOUR login to anonymously cancel a request against a patient’s wishes?! Something very suspect there. Could anyone know you’re leaving and have it in for you??

randomchap · 15/10/2024 22:24

There may be a IT service desk that covers the local area. In the trust I work for, the contact details are on everyone's desktop background.

It's definitely wrong and needs flagging above the practice manager.

Are you able to get evidence that this is happening?

Politico27 · 15/10/2024 22:22

Definitely, 100% not ok. Given accessing patient data without cause is a criminal offence and there are records of who’s viewed what it also opens whoever’s card it is up to risk if someone uses their card to look at something they aren’t supposed to.

OrlandointheWilderness · 15/10/2024 22:22

That's awful!!! That's a huge breach - definitely whistleblowing territory I'm afraid.

Musicaltheatremum · 15/10/2024 22:05

Chiefspidercatcher · 15/10/2024 20:20

We don't have an IT dept, everything goes thru the PM who has separate office at other end of the building. Everything I do is done in the communal reception office where patients also pass & at least 1 other receptionist most of the time is near so no calls are private. I'd not put it past the PM to call IT & req my new passcode if I changed it either given how they've behaved so far.

Phone IT yourself there isn't one in the practice but all IT is run through the health board (or equivalent where you are) . In Scotland our system didn't have smart cards but all individual log ins. We were not allowed to share. Sometimes locums spent ages in the phone to IT if their logins failed to work. IT would not tell PM your code.
Tell senior partner. I used to have this role and my door was always open to staff with concerns.

PrueRamsay · 15/10/2024 21:50

Carmamma · 15/10/2024 20:44

Can you “lose” your card so the PM has to give you your spare?

Edited

That’s what I was thinking.

At least then you could keep it with you at all times and know you were “safe” until you leave.

godmum56 · 15/10/2024 21:46

EX NHS manager here who used to work with GP's a lot. Not normal or right but did you know that GP's are not NHS employees? So far as I am aware, all practices are privately owned. GP's are contractors. The person you'd normally go to about this would be the practice manager but it sounds like that won't help. The only thing I can suggest is that you try and contact someone in data management from one of the hospitals used by your patients. The person who is at the top of the responsibility tree is called the Caldecott Guardian and a letter or email to them or their office should set a bomb off. Google How to to contact a Caldecott Guardian for more info.

PlasticineKing · 15/10/2024 21:08

I think actually this is commonplace although it’s absolutely against policy and you can very much whistleblow about it and you should be taken seriously. A friend has been disciplined for something similar (not GPs) although she is adamant it’s commonplace in order to be more efficient.

BlackToes · 15/10/2024 20:51

Personally I’d ask her about the prescription cancellation, say you didn’t cancel it (you weren’t working) and yet it shows as cancelled by yourself? There must be a second card in use by someone else and so you'd like to take it so that you have both your cards in your possession.

Carmamma · 15/10/2024 20:44

Can you “lose” your card so the PM has to give you your spare?

kab89 · 15/10/2024 20:39

Sorry cross posted. I'm pleased you have found how to change your pin.

kab89 · 15/10/2024 20:38

There should be an IT department for the CCG who deal with this, not an IT department at the surgery. Could you phone the emis helpline number which is on your desktop homescreen and see if they can help put you in touch with IT. If it was me I wouldn't care if the other receptionist knew that I have done this.

I know you are leaving soon but as everything is auditable there will be entries etc under your log in. I haven't used emis for a few years but I think there may be an icon on your desktop for changing your smartcard log in pin, I could be thinking of something else though.