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Original poster

To ask you to help me be smart about this mat leave issue?

105 replies

ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 11:24

Struggling with this mat leave issue and hoping the viper hivemind can help me work out how to deal with it! Apologies for the length but didn't want to leave out any relevant factors!

I started a new job 18 months ago. I took it in a bit of a hurry as I wasn't planning to leave my old job, which I loved, but found I was completely side-lined (to the point of not being given any work) after returning from my first mat leave, despite things going really well before I took the leave. I had to get out relatively quickly as I knew I wanted a second DC and would need to be in any new job for a year before qualifying for enhanced mat leave.

I told the recruiter from the very start (and kept repeating) that I needed to see the mat leave policy ASAP as I'm the main breadwinner but he kept fobbing me off and in the end I didn't get to see it until after they had offered me the role (after a gruelling 4 round process, which included me staying up until 1am the night before having all of our family round for DC1's first birthday, preparing a presentation), so obviously I was already quite invested by that point.

The policy is terrible. I was really upset with the recruiter and made it clear to him I would never have even interviewed for the role if I'd seen the policy first, as we need the money, but by this point I was very invested and felt rushed as I had interviewed for a couple of other roles which didn't feel right at all. Despite the policy, I really got on with my now boss, the work was a step up and there was a small pay increase. I even raised my concern with my new boss before accepting the role and he told me that the company realised the policy was terrible and were in the process of updating it, so it should be fine by the time I would need to qualify for it.

Fast forward 18 months, the job has been good but I'm now pregnant and of course the policy has not been updated, leaving DH and I in a very stressful situation. It was true that HR were updating it and I was following its progress as part of the Women's Network, so I was as sure as possible it would be updated this summer, but the Board just hasn't approved the new version and it won't be done in time for me, if at all in the near future. We are talking about a big, successful FTSE 100 company here, not some small, struggling start-up or similar, so there is no excuse for it, it's just not a priority so not being done. I know I took a risk when taking on the role but am honestly just so, so disappointed that nothing has improved in 18 months. I also couldn't time my pregnancy perfectly - if it had taken us 6 months or longer to conceive then we would have been ok financially as they have a 2 year enhanced policy which, while not great, is acceptable. However we were lucky to fall pregnant first time, which of course you can't count on so need to leave a bit of wiggle room and age is not on my side.

My heart says to just completely check out of the company now - they've really screwed us over as a family so why should I care about them? Just work to rule until I go on leave, then go part time and work to rule when I return until I feel ready to apply to move somewhere new. My head says: the job is otherwise good, working to rule would mainly punish my boss and my team, who are in no way to blame for this, I should play the long game as this will be my last mat leave so I won't be affected by the policy after this. Yet another part of me thinks I should fight for an improvement for the next couple of months - speak to anyone I can on the Board and make it clear I'm unhappy, in the hope this will spur them to approve the new policy in time for it to benefit me? But I'm not very senior in the corporate hierarchy (have only spoken to one person on the Board previously) and worried that this could go wrong for me and I'll be frozen out before I'm ready to leave, which would create a bad atmosphere and cause stress around my mat leave, which would be horrible.

Don't really know where to go from here :-( Please nobody respond telling me I'm lucky to get mat leave at all, lucky to have a job at all, etc. that's all the bare minimum we should be expecting - I'm a highly skilled professional and know my worth to the company (as does my boss and his boss). Just looking for a fair package for women in 2024 from a large, successful company, but apparently that's still too much to ask for...

OP posts:
amothersinstinct · 15/10/2024 14:36

I was the main earner in a professional senior position with no full pay at all - I just had to go back when children were 16 weeks - unfortunately that's just life

You took a gamble on changing jobs and lost. You could have declined and stayed in your old job and waited for another job opening but you gambled that this new employer would have a better mat leave in place by the time you needed it. They haven't. There isn't much you can do other than negotiate but it will p off anyone else in the company

Onlyonekenobe · 15/10/2024 14:33

I do just want to add the following: Women's Networks efforts go about this incorrectly (in my very humble opinion). Not all women in the workplace want or can have any, or any more children; and women in the workplace encounter many issues that men don't beyond maternity leave (wait till you hit the menopause).

I really think these efforts should be reclaimed as Family Network efforts. It's really about tiny babies being put into daycare (beyond a certain point where the mother is physically healed from pregnancy and childbirth), and toddlers and small children being continuously sick in the early years, and holiday childcare not being routinely available and so on and so forth for a child's childhood. Shared parental leave should be brought under this umbrella. It's also about disabled dependents and care for ageing dependents. The burden should be borne by mother and father, for the benefit of the family as a whole. The days of 5 weeks of annual leave just isn't applicable in a society where the majority of families are now two-working parents, where people live longer, where national healthcare offers less and less care, where public resources simply don't stretch far enough to give people the necessary (let alone any slack). The state is privatising care for dependents and the vulnerable by shrinking its offering; yet employers are demanding just as much as ever. Adults in the 30-60yo range (ime) are squeezed dry.

To reframe the conversation as "Family Networks" includes all adults, including the men who sit on all-male boards. They likely have children, they likely never took paternity leave, they likely have SAHMs raising their children. But making this a "human being with family obligation" issue, rather than a "women and women-only" issue is more realistic and more palatable, and gives employees greater freedom to manage all the calls on their resources.

Soontobe60 · 15/10/2024 14:17

ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 12:13

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow it's not just the recruitment company though - it's the company I work for. They clearly don't value female employees at all and it just makes me wonder why I bother going above and beyond for a male board who don't care about me.

The fact that they employed you knowing you had every intention of taking mat leave indicates to be that they DO value female employees, otherwise you wouldn’t have got the job.
You sound like an intelligent woman, so why did you not wait until you had sight of the mat policy before accepting the job? Then once you realised it wasn’t great, why didn’t you push for it to be improved? Then why, knowing it hadn’t been improved, did you choose to get pregnant knowing you’d struggle financially?
This is all on you I’m afraid,

Catza · 15/10/2024 14:08

Confused by your "the company screwed us over". You knew about the policy and decided to go for the role anyway due to sank cost fallacy. That's on you. And maybe it will make you feel less angry to accept your responsibility in this.
Whether you check out or fight, it's a matter of personal values. I wouldn't be comfortable not giving my 100% (but no more) to the job. I would enquire who is the working group overseeing the policy and then contact them to enquire what is the holdup.

Original poster
ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 14:05

@MissScarletInTheBallroom yes and yes. Unfortunately he is also not senior enough to really influence a change. I think he will be just as disappointed as I am that there hasn't been any progress. We work really well together and that's one of the reasons I don't want to take my disappointment at the Board out on him/our team. His boss is senior enough to have influence, however, so I might try seeing if my boss will speak to his boss and we can get things moving that way. (Though feel bad at having to bring this up yet again and making it his issue, though I guess that's part of the role of manager!)

OP posts:
Original poster
ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 14:02

thanks @minipie very useful post!

and sorry to all those helpful posters I haven't replied to individually - promise I will work through all of the suggestions and do my best to apply them all.

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 14:02

ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 13:47

Thanks very much to those who have been supportive. It was actually a really horrible time for me when I made the move to this job. The return to my old job was a huge shock to the system as things had been going really well for me there, I'd done all my KIT days and kept in touch on a more informal note with everyone and done plenty of reading on industry updates etc and made it very clear I was keen to hit the ground running when I came back, so to come back to basically being stonewalled and excluded from everything was a huge knock to my confidence at a time when I was also struggling with leaving my 9 month old at home.

I honestly pushed hard to get access to the mat leave policy - it was always promised later that day/the next day/when X person came back from leave etc, it was never an outright "no", or "not until you have an offer". The recruiter also told me it was "competitive" and I had nothing to worry about. When I saw it I was in tears, especially as I'd put so much into the recruitment process and everything else seemed great. I felt like I had few options given I wanted to leave as soon as possible, as the atmosphere at my old job made me dread going in.

I had quite a difficult call with new boss-to-be (not exactly the call you want to have with someone who could withdraw a job offer from you at any moment!) and he was so supportive and actually went away and spoke to HR and came back to me to say it was on the cusp of being updated. I think he gave me that info in genuine good faith that it would be totally fine by the time I would want to use it, as the updates had been drafted back in 2019 and then dropped during COVID, then picked back up again a couple of months before I applied.

It's just so depressing as the company makes a huge deal about being supportive of women - one of their stated goals is to increase the percentage of women in senior positions and they frequently hold "championing female professionals" events. Feels completely hypocritical when the one thing they could do that would actually make a difference is withheld by a bunch of senior men.

For those who have suggested I share leave with DH - absolutely - we did 9 months/3 months last time and planned to do 8 months/4 months this time. All his time off is unpaid after first 2 weeks. I plan to breastfeed again, so would really not want to go back earlier. I would much rather struggle more financially than go back sooner. Just very depressing that this is still the choice that women are having to make in this day and age.

Also just to be clear on one point - I'm not at all disappointed in the women's network - far from it, it's such a dedicated group of excellent women, many who have struggled through all sorts of issues in the past. It's more that I'm gutted at how little influence we as a group seem to have, despite the company's message that female opportunities are important to them.

Is the boss you had that call with still your boss now?

If so, they should be your first port of call. You can remind them of that conversation you had and say how frustrated you are that nothing has been sorted out in the last 18 months. Tell your boss that as things stand you couldn't in all good conscience recommend your employer as a good place for women to work because all their talk about supporting women is just that - talk. Not backed up by anything concrete.

Does your boss know you are pregnant yet?

minipie · 15/10/2024 14:01

one of their stated goals is to increase the percentage of women in senior positions

That’s a 5th point to add to my 4 above

Maphat · 15/10/2024 14:01

My company backdated pay when they updated the policy for those who were on mat leave at the time. Hopefully yours will update and do the same

TemuSpecialBuy · 15/10/2024 14:00

@ConkerGame remember there is ALWAYS flex.

bucking the mumsnet mantra… No is not a complete sentence for me 😉😅

if they can’t change the policy and they won’t enhance it they could give you a one time cash bonus equivalent to it … or award 3m discretionary annual leave (although that might be a bit 🥴 given you have shared parent leave at play) or…..

basically be creative in your asks

if they won’t work with you… fuck em give the bare minimum and pour your energy into your family and your next career move

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 13:57

minipie · 15/10/2024 13:37

In your shoes I would absolutely negotiate and I’m a bit depressed by the defeatist posts above.

Make 3 points

1). You were told before accepting the job that the policy would be enhanced by the time you needed it. (Do you have this on email by any chance?) You relied on this when choosing this job above others/staying where you were.

2). The cost to the company of the enhanced maternity is small in the grand scheme of things and considerably lower than the value you bring to the company.

3). Don’t go as far as threatening to resign but you could say something like this is making you question your commitment to the company, given it doesn’t appear to value retaining you through enhanced mat pay.

  1. You can offer to pay back the enhanced portion if you don’t return for at least 1 yr post mat leave. (This is a common quid pro quo of enhanced as I expect you know). This is the flip side of 3) - if they do show you their commitment by enhancing your mat pay, you will demonstrate your commitment to them in return.

If they say “we can’t offer this to you without offering it to everyone” then you mention 1) above - other people did not have this promise made, only you. In fact I would make this point even if they don’t mention it, in case it’s in their head.

Good luck. Most of the pp are ignoring the assurances made to you at offer stage which I think is key here.

This. ⬆️

Original poster
ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 13:53

@TemuSpecialBuy thanks, that's very helpful to know

@Nottodaty thanks so much for helping out the next generation of women even though you're through that stage. I will 100% be doing that myself once I'm out the other side.

@Onlyonekenobe no, UK.

@Pleasebeafleabite that's depressing. The company is doing really really well financially and they've been looking at updating their policy for 5 years now and done nothing. I can understand the delay during the uncertainty of covid, but by 2022 they had fully recovered and no excuse really.

Thank you to whoever mentioned mortgage holiday - hadn't considered that

OP posts:
Whyherewego · 15/10/2024 13:51

Is there a senior person on the Board or executive team that you could talk to about this? Your last post is very eloquent and I think you could do with sharing a version of this ... saying that you had been told this was being done and here you are almost 2 years later and it's not been done and it makes women feel undervalued.

Original poster
ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 13:47

Thanks very much to those who have been supportive. It was actually a really horrible time for me when I made the move to this job. The return to my old job was a huge shock to the system as things had been going really well for me there, I'd done all my KIT days and kept in touch on a more informal note with everyone and done plenty of reading on industry updates etc and made it very clear I was keen to hit the ground running when I came back, so to come back to basically being stonewalled and excluded from everything was a huge knock to my confidence at a time when I was also struggling with leaving my 9 month old at home.

I honestly pushed hard to get access to the mat leave policy - it was always promised later that day/the next day/when X person came back from leave etc, it was never an outright "no", or "not until you have an offer". The recruiter also told me it was "competitive" and I had nothing to worry about. When I saw it I was in tears, especially as I'd put so much into the recruitment process and everything else seemed great. I felt like I had few options given I wanted to leave as soon as possible, as the atmosphere at my old job made me dread going in.

I had quite a difficult call with new boss-to-be (not exactly the call you want to have with someone who could withdraw a job offer from you at any moment!) and he was so supportive and actually went away and spoke to HR and came back to me to say it was on the cusp of being updated. I think he gave me that info in genuine good faith that it would be totally fine by the time I would want to use it, as the updates had been drafted back in 2019 and then dropped during COVID, then picked back up again a couple of months before I applied.

It's just so depressing as the company makes a huge deal about being supportive of women - one of their stated goals is to increase the percentage of women in senior positions and they frequently hold "championing female professionals" events. Feels completely hypocritical when the one thing they could do that would actually make a difference is withheld by a bunch of senior men.

For those who have suggested I share leave with DH - absolutely - we did 9 months/3 months last time and planned to do 8 months/4 months this time. All his time off is unpaid after first 2 weeks. I plan to breastfeed again, so would really not want to go back earlier. I would much rather struggle more financially than go back sooner. Just very depressing that this is still the choice that women are having to make in this day and age.

Also just to be clear on one point - I'm not at all disappointed in the women's network - far from it, it's such a dedicated group of excellent women, many who have struggled through all sorts of issues in the past. It's more that I'm gutted at how little influence we as a group seem to have, despite the company's message that female opportunities are important to them.

OP posts:
minipie · 15/10/2024 13:38

Whoops, that’s 4 points 😆

minipie · 15/10/2024 13:37

In your shoes I would absolutely negotiate and I’m a bit depressed by the defeatist posts above.

Make 3 points

1). You were told before accepting the job that the policy would be enhanced by the time you needed it. (Do you have this on email by any chance?) You relied on this when choosing this job above others/staying where you were.

2). The cost to the company of the enhanced maternity is small in the grand scheme of things and considerably lower than the value you bring to the company.

3). Don’t go as far as threatening to resign but you could say something like this is making you question your commitment to the company, given it doesn’t appear to value retaining you through enhanced mat pay.

  1. You can offer to pay back the enhanced portion if you don’t return for at least 1 yr post mat leave. (This is a common quid pro quo of enhanced as I expect you know). This is the flip side of 3) - if they do show you their commitment by enhancing your mat pay, you will demonstrate your commitment to them in return.

If they say “we can’t offer this to you without offering it to everyone” then you mention 1) above - other people did not have this promise made, only you. In fact I would make this point even if they don’t mention it, in case it’s in their head.

Good luck. Most of the pp are ignoring the assurances made to you at offer stage which I think is key here.

TemuSpecialBuy · 15/10/2024 13:30

I absolutely agree companies should have a legal obligation to make mat leave and pat leave policies transparent and freely available on their websites.

regarding negotiating on your own specific mat leave I am happy to identify myself enough to say I personally know women who 💯 did negotiate flex on their mat leave packages / had rules bent for them at OMG, Publicis and IPG these are not small companies

FinallyHere · 15/10/2024 13:26

companies only offer improvements to maternity rights etc where they need to.

This is absolutely hitting the nail on the head.

OP has an opportunity to make the case that this is necessary.

It's also a simpler lesson in negotiation to, in future, always let your spidery senses warn you, if there is something important to you, such as the maternity benefit policy, that you ask for and they keep 'forgetting' to provide, that is exactly the place to prove as there will be something important there. If it was something they thought would help their case with you, they would have it front and centre.

If you take away one thing from this experience of things to do differently in future, I'd encourage you to make it this one

Whyherewego · 15/10/2024 13:25

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 12:20

Can you find out why the board failed to approve it?

Show quote history

This is key ! It could be that it just didn't get on the agenda because they didn't have time or it could be they decided not to offer this enhanced pay. If it's the former then you could speak to HR about when it's next due to get in front of Board ? It may be before you actually go on leave?

Drfosters · 15/10/2024 13:21

Honestly I don’t think there is much you can do. I was struggling to conceive for a few years and was bored in my job so decided I couldn’t keep holding off moving jobs as might never get pregnant and obviously I fell pregnant a month after I got my new job.

so didn’t get qualify for any maternity benefits at all!

so we made the best of it. I took all the holiday I could and stretched out the most unpaid leave (aside from stat mat) I could and was back at work after 5 months mat leave.

but someone how it did all work out in the end. Stressful yes and difficult as was still breastfeeding but if you end up having less time than you hoped you will be ok.

Nottodaty · 15/10/2024 13:20

I understand where you’re coming from I was lucky with both my children and the company I worked for at the time. (The youngest is 15 and I had 26 weeks full pay etc back then as I had worked for the company at the time for over 2 years)

I recently changed companies and the maternity policy wasn’t really something i looked at - when I did I was surprised to see it so different! One of my colleagues husband has a better one with his company it means she is returning a lot earlier but he will then do the next 6 months. Might be worth him checking his ?

I do know if I was younger I probably wouldn’t have taken this role at the company! But we have a really good HR and we have pushed for a review and it is being updated and to include fathers and mothers leave. Frustrating I know that it varies so much in companies as a standard over the 6 weeks on offer.

Greentreesandbushes · 15/10/2024 13:15

OP I don’t think that you any options tbh. Trying to fight for something outside of policy probably won’t happen. Work out how to live on the options that you have.

Ideas include, 6 month mortgage holiday, DH sharing leave and you return sooner, DH finds ways to earn more. You get a side job on mat leave, babysitting pays well, £13–£15 per hour cash, start paying max into free childcare schemes.

Pleasebeafleabite · 15/10/2024 13:15

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 13:04

None of that is helpful to her in this situation. She's been there 18 months and she was led to believe that this was going to be addressed. Frankly their mat pay policy is absolutely pathetic for a large company. No wonder they're not keen to share it with recruiters.

I think it would be worth having a meeting with her boss and saying, "The company's mat pay policy really isn't in line with what other employers are offering. Everyone knows this. I was told repeatedly that the new policy was going to be brought in and it was just a case of the board signing off on it now it's been mothballed, what, indefinitely? Why? What's going on?"

She could also consider leaving a review on Glassdoor to warn any potential job candidates.

Personally I think the government should make it a legal requirement for employers to publish their maternity pay policy on their website.

Show quote history

As per my second post above It’s really not difficult to understand why it’s been mothballed. All you have to do is read the news at what’s intended for employers to plug the UK deficit and improvements in employment t&cs. It makes perfect sense to await these before deciding on remuneration strategy.

it might be heresy to say so on here but many companies only offer improvements to maternity rights etc where they need to. Not all companies are falling over themselves to recruit women who are going to be off on one or more maternity leaves then come back to work part time. It will depend on industry and scarcity of candidates

Westofeasttoday · 15/10/2024 13:13

Your message confuses me a little bit. I understand you aren’t happy but I can’t get my head around the following:

  1. You accepted the job without anything being hidden. Why is it the company’s fault now that the policy doesn’t suit you?
  2. You talk about being angry and frustrated at the Womens network yet they aren’t the board and can’t make this decision.
  3. Very large companies move VERY slowly at times. They may need to benchmark against other markets, industry etc. Have you ever seen anything work super quick where you work policy wise? Big companies don’t move for one person and as there are always people getting pregnant they are in no real hurry for a deadline.
  4. Why is it the recruiters responsibility to ensure the policies work for you? It’s your job and your choice.

Having said all that, you are where you are.

i would talk to your HR business partner about it and ask if it can be enhanced. You also accrue holiday while on mat leave so you may be able to opt for this sooner as this is at full pay.

Dont work to rule. It looks petty and frankly it’s not the business’ fault. Also if the company for any reason wanted to downsize you would be a prime candidate for your attitude and work ethic. And it might affect your performance bonus if you get one and sounds like you need the money.

Coming back from maternity is hard if that’s what you want to do and working to rule won’t make you a prime candidate for part time work either.

You may also want to reach out to the womens network and see how their lobbying is going.

Good luck.

SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 15/10/2024 13:11

ConkerGame · 15/10/2024 12:13

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow it's not just the recruitment company though - it's the company I work for. They clearly don't value female employees at all and it just makes me wonder why I bother going above and beyond for a male board who don't care about me.

I do understand that and I agree that maternity pay across the board is often shockingly low. But if you are the breadwinner, you need to be sensible. They can still get rid of you with virtually no consequences as you haven't been there for 2 years. They can sideline you like the last company did. They can give an off the record chat to their mates elsewhere if you want a reference. The people you work with might end up elsewhere and remember you as they person who got pregnant and let everyone else do the work.

Do whatever works for you, none of us have to live with the outcome. It just makes more sense to suck it up for now and mention in an an exit interview why they are losing experienced female talent. Enjoy the baby cuddles in the meantime.