Is this going to open a floodgate - weight loss jabs for unemployed

soupfiend ah but this takes effort and many are too lazy to plan and cook.

ThisOldThang, ah but it won't be for long.

Oh dear, this link popped up in my emails. Im not sure why I get notifications from diabetes uk but here it is. That is a great disappointment that they have fed into that false narrative.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2024/oct/unemployed-could-receive-weight-loss-jabs-to-return-to-work-says-health-secretary-wes-streeting.html

The job centre will sort that out they will take away their pride.

I'm not opposed to it. But a long-term unemployed person isn't necessarily going to think 'yaay, now that I'm slim, I have the confidence to apply for loads of jobs.'
That's not how the mind works.

It’s reasonable. Mediterranean style diet has the largest evidence base for a healthy diet and the protocols a lot of the evidence was based on use food pyramid/eat well plate or something similar as part of the balance.

The biggest issue with it is likely to be that people are eating way more than 1/3 of their diet as carbs.

Its better than it used to be but they dont seem to differentiate between which grains and starches are better than others

However those visual representations need to be very simplified for the general population. Its why for example, the 5 a day was used, actually it should be way more than that for optimum nutrition and balance but they thought no one would eat 10 a day so they dropped it to a more manageable 5. Which most people dont manage!!

I would like to see fruit in a different category if Im honest

Bread and cereals taken out separately from beans, pulses, lentils, legumes, other more nutritious starches. But the general population may see that as too faffy, then ignore it.

No idea about the food pyramid but current nhs advice still seems to be eat a third of your diet via carbs. Is that good advice? I have no idea. 🤷‍♀️. I thought protein was the way forward?

www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-guidelines-and-food-labels/the-eatwell-guide/ www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-guidelines-and-food-labels/the-eatwell-guide/]]]]

What part of “there is no shortage of mounjaro” do you not understand?

you said that the nhs isn’t able to give diabetics the drugs they need and that is incorrect. You’re just repeating total bollocks. Embarrassing.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5bbb790de5274a22415d7fee/Eatwell_guide_colour_edition.pdf

NHS has not used the food pyramid for 17 years.

Regarding the hashimotos, I seem to have reversed that too judging by my last thyroid test. Insulin and t3/4 are very closely related, as is thyroid antibodies.

I spent six months on thyroxine (which made me incredibly sick) before stopping it all and starting this process.

It can be done, without injections. But for the right candidate, I do understand their use as a tool. Not to be used indiscriminately.

Pharma/medical industry profits come first, as does cheap easy food for the population. A high complex/simple carbohydrate diet is useful in a moving population (ie, a farmer) not so much in an office culture.

People need to realise that the slice of bread they’re eating is no different to sugar, and it has the same effect on insulin. Let’s not even get into the glyphosate that’s sprayed all over it.

Are you suggesting the appetite depression is an unwanted side effect?

Oh I can well believe that. And an aid to weight loss that actually produces results is more likely to change the user’s habits and expectations in the longer term.

My understanding is that semaglutide is remarkably effective. I suppose I just wonder about the longer term flight path at the population level.

So codeine causes constipation in some people - so does that make it an anti-diarrhoea medication too, then?

Hmmm. It lessens appetite. The rest seems to be hair splitting.

However being fat and having large amounts of adipose tissue also affects hormone functioning, its much easier to control appetite if you havent got vast swathes of internal and external adipose tissue.

The advantages outweight the risks and disadvantages for most users.

No weight loss methods come out smelling of roses, but medication is one of the better methods for sustained loss.

It would be easy to think that they did not want a healthy, productive population, by allowing all of these things to be in the food in the first place. Maybe they are finally realising the cost to Society, and are trying to do something about it. They need to do something about the food industry in this Country though, as well as equipping future generations on food knowledge, and how to prepare, and cook meals made with real ingredients.

No - it says ‘it appears to regulate appetite’ not that it IS an appetite suppressant - see @CoverMeInMarmalade ’s explanation above.

@CoverMeInMarmalade thank you - I ‘know’ the science when I read it, but couldn’t recall it in the correct detail to explain it above.

We also know a low carb diet is extremely effective in reversing insulin resistance, so why does the food pyramid still contain a majority of grains and simple carbohydrates?

Because it’s cheap nasty filler for the population. I believe we should combat this at source but I know pharmaceutical companies need their profits.

The drug licensing authorities say it’s an appetite depressant.

On the EMA’s information page it says:

“The active substance in Wegovy, semaglutide, is a ‘GLP-1 receptor agonist’. It acts in the same way as GLP-1 (a natural hormone in the body) and, among other things, appears to regulate appetite by increasing a person’s feelings of fullness, while reducing their food intake, hunger and cravings.”

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/wegovy#:~:text=How%20does%20Wegovy%20work%3F,food%20intake%2C%20hunger%20and%20cravings.

Surely the drug is depressing appetite, through the action of hormones?
If you stop taking the drug to depress the appetite and then go back to not controlling your calorie intake, you’ll get fat again.

The drug triggers GLP-1 receptors that are found all around the body, but esp the pancreas. They control insulin release and sensitivty. But triggering them, you increase insulin amounts and sensitivity and thus lower blood sugar. Lower BS means more stable BS and less sugar crashes, leading to less sugar cravings.

GLP-1 also controls digestion speed. By triggering them you slow down digestion so, you are fuller for longer. It also increases leptin levels. Leptin is what tells your brain you've eaten enough for your needs. This obviously depresses appetite.

The triggering of GLP-1 receptors also supresses ghrelin production - ghrelin controls hunger and so less of it = less hunger.

In short, it causes all of those hormones to go back to 'normal' levels. It corrects what genetics and a lifetime of weight gain and yo-yo dieting have done to wreck them. It is them being so wrecked that means it iss not just 'self control' but constant and impossible battle against your own biology which is pushing you with every tool it has to eat and eat and eat until you have more than regained any weight you've lost.

So, you are right in that when you stop taking it, IF your obesity was caused by the many things that interfere with those hormones, you are likely to still have a foundational hormonal problem which will resurface. People are likely to need long term help with this.

No, it is not an appetite suppressant. It helps recalibrate the body’s response to insulin (which impacts whether we feel hungry or not, ie so the effect is that people feel their appetite is suppressed). At the moment it appears there are groups of people for whom this may be permanently dysfunctional (genetics, diabetics) for home remaining on these medications for life may be necessary. For others, trauma, depression etc may have lead to endocrinological disruption and/or unbalanced eating, esp if UPFs are main fare. For this group it is hoped that this response may be corrected by lifestyle changes. This, again, is like depression and the use of anti depressants where some people may need them permanently but most people can adapt lifestyle, mindset, undergo therapy and gradually wean off and life quite happily without them.

Eli Lily et al are conducting studies to try and identify more easily and quickly which of those two groups a person may fall into and how it impacts their response to those medications.