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Original poster

Work situation, need advice & a backbone

34 replies

Anotherlastminutepanic · 14/10/2024 22:07

Started a PT job 2 months ago. At interview I explained I had caring responsibilities so could only do routine 1 late per wk, tho ad hoc extras periodically to cover hols etc OK just not regularly 2+ lates.

If they'd said this was a problem, no hard feelings I'dhave understood. But they said we'd talk about shifts to agree what worked for us both then offered me the job.

The first 6 wks was training so no consistent rota as I was shadowing ppl.

Last wk the my rota was issued. I'm working 3 / 5 lates. I thought, this must be a mistake! Trotted to raise with manager to be told: no mistake this is what we need. If you don't like it, this isn't the job for you.

Now I have no problem with them doing this if I'd not communicated my situation before the rota was given. But I did & was taken on with this known & told wed disciss shifts. It's as if that conversation never happened now I'm there.

I blatantly need to challenge this or leave. I am in the process of trying to leaving, actively looking elsewhere, submitting applications & have been offered a role elsewhere but it's public sector and everything takes forever to happen before I know all pre-employment chks go thru OK & I can give notice. Then I have to work my notice. So I could be stuck on this horrendous (for me) rota for a while yet. I'd suck it up if it was just me, but it's my children who bear the brunt & one is in a critical yr of school so I'm not wanting this to affect them.

How would you raise? Given I've raised verbally & been ignored. It's a small workplace (like <10 employees) & I'm a coward when it comes to confrontation but need to find my inner beast with a backbone cos this is unfair & our verbal agreement about working shifts that fitted my responsibilities gas been completely ignored for no clear reason.

To add, 2 other members of staff have got the specific days / shifts they requested due to their caring responsibilities / 2nd job. So it does seem I'm being treated unfairly & differently altho I know businesses can do that if business dictates but that's not the case here. We're admin & the other members of staff have flexibility to cover the lates I can't.

Cos of the small stulructure, the person doing the rota is also my line manager, and HR, so feels like no one else I can turn to.

Advice on how to handle pls that's firm, professional & covers me if I need to take it further. But ideally doesn't make life hell for me until I leave.

OP posts:
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autienotnaughty · 15/10/2024 09:34

I would either-
Explain you need time to sort childcare so you can do one late but not the others. And hope your new job starts soon

Or work two phone in sick for third

Or get signed off with stress by gp

Original poster
Anotherlastminutepanic · 15/10/2024 09:05

Potentially signed off work for stress. I'd have no worries my gp would do this as this situation is stressful & the gp knows I have other pressures.

What we agreed we'd speak about after interview was the finer details of when I'd work. Ie which specific days. As I'm flexible on that Mon-Fro, it's working late I said I'm not flexible on.

During training I didn't do more than 1 late per wk most wks. Occasionally 2 but never 3. Some if this was over the summer hols so not as much of an issue. This has only happened with 3 lates for the formal rota recently issued.

It's a sh1t workplace but I will be gone before Christmas if all goes to plan. This is my main issue but there are many others less pressing eg given 1 wks notice for a new rota, then told if I have any commitments & can't arrange someone to swap shifts with anyone I have to use my leave. How about giving staff sufficient notice of working patterns. I was asking for the rota for wks b4 as needing to plan stuff in & was told they'd honour any clashes. This isn't my idea of honouring clashes! I actually hate it there.

OP posts:
Cuppachuchu · 15/10/2024 08:55

Similar happened to me years ago. I waited till I got paid, then never went back. Not proud of that, but felt taken advantage of. It was an insurance call centre. I've had any changes to contract details put in writing ever since..

QuantumPanic · 15/10/2024 08:53

I'd go on a fact finding mission first. Send an email - remind them what was discussed at interview and ask how long the shift pattern you have been issued is expected to last. State again that you cannot do three lates; ask which late they would prefer you do and whether the rest can be given to someone else. Since they have already effectively told you to lump it or get lost, I expect the answer will be to get lost. But better to have a clear answer in writing.

If they won't change your shifts and you cannot do them, then your only option is to quit, either with or without notice. If you don't need them as a reference, then just walk away. In theory they can try to pursue you for financial loss to the business because of your leaving without notice, but in practice it won't happen (because the loss is miniscule and the process for recovery costly and lengthy).

You mentioned getting signed off but wanting to be available for your second job - that's fine. It's perfectly possible to be signed off from one job while continuing to work another. In this case the stress of the shift situation will be what prevents you from performing job A; that stress is not present in job B, so you are able to continue doing it.

https://www.safeworkers.co.uk/employment-law/work-another-job-on-sick-leave/

Do what's best for you, OP, and don't worry about your employer - they've wasted your time and their own time and resources by agreeing to something they could not actually offer you.

Can You Work Another Job While on Sick Leave?

Can you work another job on sick leave? If you have a second role, you might wonder if it is OK to continue it when signed off.

https://www.safeworkers.co.uk/employment-law/work-another-job-on-sick-leave

Soontobe60 · 15/10/2024 08:50

From your first post, you said it was agreed at interview that they would ‘talk about shifts to agree what worked for both of you’. That’s a world away from agreeing you would only have to work 1 late shift a week.
When you applied for this job, did the advert state what the working pattern could be? Or did it state day shifts only?
It sounds like miscommunication on both sides TBH. I would guess that most women who work in the care sector have other responsibilities if they are parents, so I’m afraid your argument about not doing lates won’t wash. You have 2 immediate choices - resign because you’re not prepared to work lates or just do the shifts and keep the job. Going off sick isn’t an option - you’re not ill so that would be a lie. In the meantime, keep looking for a job that is more convenient to your wants.

akissbeforebed · 15/10/2024 08:48

As you already have another job on the table this clearly takes the pressure off you. I would put in writing that what you are currently being scheduled for in terms of shifts is not what you agreed at interview and request that this be looked at urgently as it's an untenable situation for you.

When they refuse (as I'm sure they will) are you in a position to walk out? Can you afford to not have an income for a month or so? If you can, I would be professional about it, hand in your notice and request they allow you to go immediately. However, as you've not used them for a reference, if you leave on bad terms it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things - they haven't honoured their word to you so I wouldn't feel too obligated to them.

Schoolchoicesucks · 15/10/2024 08:47

On what basis would you be signed off?

If you have another job to start in 6-8 weeks then that is 12-14 lates to cover. It sounds as though you are/have been able to juggle some more lates than you would like as you have been doing this during the training and you did say you could do them on an ad hoc basis. So maybe 6-8 lates causing you a problem.

Can you suck them up in the short term? Arrange for someone else to provide the support at home? Or go back to manager and say "I'm not happy about the 3 lates a week as we'd discussed doing 1 because of my caring responsibilities. I'm willing to be flexible and take 2 lates but really can't do the 3rd".

If the shifts need to be covered and other staff also have caring responsibilities, something has to give - either staff are willing to accommodate patterns that aren't ideal, or the employer will have to find staff who can work the shifts (which could mean fewer shifts for you).

Congrats on finding another role quickly - this is a short term issue.

Original poster
Anotherlastminutepanic · 15/10/2024 08:32

The point of my post was

  1. X was discussed & agreed at interview
  2. X wasn't able to be implemented initially during training
  3. X hadn't been implemented after training
  4. Subsequent reminder given to employer about X has resulted in being told you're not having X and if you don't like it jog on
  5. Other ppl have X for similar reasons as I asked for X

I am looking for other employment & have been made a (higher paid, PT, regular hours) job offer but it's taking a little longer than I anticipated for their due diligence & I could well be where I am for another 6-8 wks which creates issues.

Current employer has no idea I have other job offer as didn't use them for reference.

Just hoped to get a plan on challenging the situation for the remainder of my time where I am now. Because the alternative is consideting being signed off until I leave, which would be statutory pay which I could manage for a month or so but I'd be concerned if it might bite me on the bum down the line if I have to declare it as I'm never off work ill. Also I have a 2nd job as a casual worker (random days ad hoc when needed) which I'd probably not be able to do if issued with a fit note for current job & I don't want to let them down.

OP posts:
midgetastic · 15/10/2024 08:27

It's not that she has a right to any particular pattern

It's that she was lied to in the interview process

That's the process where each party decides if they were a good fit

They have wasted her time and effort because they lied about their requirements

Not sure you can do much however other than find a new role

Werecat · 15/10/2024 07:57

Contact ACAS.

YourLastNerve · 15/10/2024 07:55

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

Ok so if she has Caring Responsibilities she can exercise her statutory rights and take a maximum of one unpaid day to make caring arrangements.

I don't think there's actually any statutory right to be granted a shift pattern that doesn't meet the employers needs because you have caring responsibilities.

YourLastNerve · 15/10/2024 07:55

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

Ok so if she has Caring Responsibilities she can exercise her statutory rights and take a maximum of one unpaid day to make caring arrangements.

I don't think there's actually any statutory right to be granted a shift pattern that doesn't meet the employers needs because you have caring responsibilities.

5475878237NC · 15/10/2024 07:49

Shall we just assume the OP has caring responsibilities and answer her questions?

In your shoes I would say I can only do one of these three, which one would you like it to be and make it very clear you will not be attending work on the other lates. I would get in an an email that you took the job on on the understanding you would only do one late on a regular basis and this amounts to breach of contract. Then you could go down the tribunal route if unfairly dismissed.

Meanwhile I'd immediately start job hunting.

YourLastNerve · 15/10/2024 07:32

Nb op your view of caring responsibilities is arguably very broad and doesn't really go beyond what many would consider normal family life. An employer doesn't have to bend rules/accomodate just anything.

"Caring responsibilities" from a HR perspective is when an employee who is caring for a dependant with long term needs, and includes:

Long term care is when the dependant has:

  • any physical or mental illness or injury that requires or is likely to require care for more than three months.
  • a condition or illness that is considered a disability under with the Equality Act 2010
  • care needs connected with their old age.

Its not just "im a busy mum with 3 kids & eldest has exams and struggles with maths" or whatever

YourLastNerve · 15/10/2024 07:26

Also if it isn't in writing/in your contract and there's no evidence of it being verbally discussed at interview, you won't get anywhere.

How i usually handle this is by responding to a job offer by email, and stating "i accept the job, conditional on the shift pattern as discussed in interview, of a maximum of one evening shift per week", and copying HR.

YourLastNerve · 15/10/2024 07:24

Unfortunately if you want a job that won't do this, you are best avoiding employers who with late/night shift rotas. No one ever wants those shifts and they end up desperately hiring anyone and then spreading the shifts out as best they can.

Find a different job. Out of interest what are your ideal hours? Is part of your issue that you are trying to land a perfect shift pattern that won't exist? Like 9-2.30 5 days a week or something

Original poster
Anotherlastminutepanic · 15/10/2024 07:19

It's not helpful ppl focusing on whether or not I should need to be around for the one child I've referred to. I've other children too, there are factors likely assumed typical about other aspects of our life that aren't which also impact & add to my caring responsibilities, I shouldn't need to list them to be judged when I'm asking for advice on a work situation.

If you are assuming my gcse child is at school 9-3.30 five mins or a bus ride down the road you are wrong, if you are assuming they don't need additional support because thry dont have SN you are wrong. Beyond that, it's not relevent & to share would allow further distraction / judging or be outing for me.

I just asked for advice on my situation at work & how to handle it. Thanks.

OP posts:
GinForBreakfast · 15/10/2024 06:25

Ditto for previous posters, unless your teen has additional needs, it doesn't feel like being home to support them in the evenings during GCSEs counts as "caring responsibilities".

However if your lates are very late I can understand why it's not practical to be out 3 nights a week.

You shouldn't care about what they think. You had an agreement of one late shift per week. Email them and tell them that is all that you can commit to and really it's up to them to deal with it.

Crazyeight · 15/10/2024 06:24

Can you email and bluster it out?

"Hi Sarah, just writing to enquire whether you've been able to arrange a new shift pattern for me yet? As a reminder we agreed Xyz at the interview"

orangegato · 15/10/2024 06:17

How late is late? I’m not sure at 15/16 I’d have noticed my mum wasn’t in…

Bestyearever2024 · 15/10/2024 06:05

You have to work whatever your contact says. Verbal agreements are irrelevant

You obviously know that now!

How long is it before you can hand your notice in?

Is there any way you can get help with caring at home for that period of time?

If not, can you be 'sick' for the late shifts you simply can't work..... for the time it takes for your new job to sort the recruitment out?

Doubleflux · 15/10/2024 06:03

If your DC is nearly 16 I cannot see the ‘caring’ issue.

Just do the shifts until you are cleared for your new job.

unlikelychump · 15/10/2024 05:56

The UC part slightly changes it for me,as you don't want to get sanctioned I guess.

What hours are "lates"? I thought you said it is admin,but later health care. How old are your kids? Exam year sounds like 16 or something? What help do they need?

I wouldn't like to work late into the evening but late to 7pm I wouldn't blink at

Unicorntastic · 15/10/2024 05:29

Is it worth saying to them that this wasn't what was agreed in the interview so you'll need some time to make alternative arrangements, then ideally work what was agreed until you are ready to leave.

1questionfromme · 15/10/2024 05:16

Anotherlastminutepanic · 15/10/2024 05:11

@1questionfromme no, health care type place, not nhs, privately owned

Oh I wish you luck then. Hopefully they'll do what they've agreed for you. I have been jaded by the horrible attitude is a supermarket in a similar situation!