Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's wrong to refuse to put a father on the birth certificate

333 replies

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 14/10/2024 19:25

I often see people on here tell the OP to refuse to put the father on the birth certificate. AIBU to think it's fundamentally wrong to deny parental rights to a child's parent and it's wrong for a baby to have a blank space on their birth certificate where their father should be unless the father is unknown because it's their birth and heritage information?

I know that women often do it to make sure the father has no say over the child because they think they know best and want to make all the decisions but I just don't think it's fair to deny parental rights to fathers.

If a father could refuse rights to the mother there would be uproar and rightly so, so why isn't it the same when women deny fathers their rights?

OP posts:
Fiveminutesinthegreenhouse · 15/10/2024 18:12

OP were your parents abusive? Or has your husband been in the past? You seem to think very highly of abusive men and their ability to parent. Infact, it seems men getting 'rights' is way more important to you than child safety.

SaltySallyAnne · 15/10/2024 18:08

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:58

I find it really odd that women aren't allowed to care about mens rights without being accused of either being a man, internalised misogynist or an MRA. I have lots of men in my life that I love, why wouldn't I care about their rights?

I grew in the era where fathers for justice were dressing up as spider man and climbing buildings because they were being denied access to their children.

Equality means rights for all, not just more and more rights for women and fuck men cause they have enough.

Also fathers for justice is a known front for abusive scumbags. No men are denied access to their children. Some men don’t bother fighting for access to their children. That is the issue.

You’re allowed to care about men’s ‘rights’ but your caring has blurred into posting inaccurate and frankly offensive bullshit online about a topic that is very emotive for many women who have suffered abuse and had to take steps to protect themselves and their children

InformerYaNoSayDaddyMeSnowMeIGoBlameALickyBoom · 15/10/2024 18:05

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:58

I find it really odd that women aren't allowed to care about mens rights without being accused of either being a man, internalised misogynist or an MRA. I have lots of men in my life that I love, why wouldn't I care about their rights?

I grew in the era where fathers for justice were dressing up as spider man and climbing buildings because they were being denied access to their children.

Equality means rights for all, not just more and more rights for women and fuck men cause they have enough.

Then you would be of an age to have read the reports about many members of FFJ being abusers and using their 'campaign' to further abuse their children's mothers.

SaltySallyAnne · 15/10/2024 18:05

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:43

Oh yes let me rethink how I feel about myself and how I view the world because some cantankerous women on Mumsnet tells me to!

Not sure why everyone on here is so against mens rights that it's shocking that a woman thinks men should have any. Equality is for everyone not just women. The misandry a lot of people demonstrate is excruciating. I hope none of you show this much contempt to your husbands and sons.

Here you go again.

men have rights. No one has denied them rights. You misunderstood a basic topic, that is all this is.

newnamethanks · 15/10/2024 18:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

YOYOK · 15/10/2024 17:59

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:43

Oh yes let me rethink how I feel about myself and how I view the world because some cantankerous women on Mumsnet tells me to!

Not sure why everyone on here is so against mens rights that it's shocking that a woman thinks men should have any. Equality is for everyone not just women. The misandry a lot of people demonstrate is excruciating. I hope none of you show this much contempt to your husbands and sons.

I’m shocked you’re still discussing men’s rights when the majority of people are discussing the parents having responsibility. The child has the rights including the right to be protected from abuse.

You speak with authority as if you know how to protect a child’s right not to be abused by their own father. However, you have not listened to those of us with personal and/or professional experience. Not inviting your abuser to register their child is one of many ways to protect your child’s right to an abuse-free life. Some abusive men will not go to the effort to apply for PR so it absolutely is a good move if the man is a risk.

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:58

Hobnobswantshernameback · 14/10/2024 21:35

Seems a strange hill for a woman to choose to die on on a website mainly used by other woman the OPs argument
Always heard this kind of viewpoint from those lovely MRA types

I find it really odd that women aren't allowed to care about mens rights without being accused of either being a man, internalised misogynist or an MRA. I have lots of men in my life that I love, why wouldn't I care about their rights?

I grew in the era where fathers for justice were dressing up as spider man and climbing buildings because they were being denied access to their children.

Equality means rights for all, not just more and more rights for women and fuck men cause they have enough.

OP posts:
ThornVampire · 15/10/2024 17:58

AIBU to think it's fundamentally wrong to poke your nose in to other people's business when you have no idea why a mother might want to protect their new child

InformerYaNoSayDaddyMeSnowMeIGoBlameALickyBoom · 15/10/2024 17:57

ACynicalDad · 15/10/2024 17:51

If the baby came from consensual sex, I think the father should be on the birth certificate. If they are useless or awful that needs managing, but it's a legal document, and I do think he should be there.

Oh yes, we all know rape convictions are almost guaranteed so that would definitely work 🤔

GabriellaMontez · 15/10/2024 17:57

ACynicalDad · 15/10/2024 17:51

If the baby came from consensual sex, I think the father should be on the birth certificate. If they are useless or awful that needs managing, but it's a legal document, and I do think he should be there.

What if he doesn't come to the registry office?

GabriellaMontez · 15/10/2024 17:55

Its almost funny.

These boards are full of women, desperate for the Fathers of their children to take responsibility. - Emotional/practical/financial.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 17:54

ACynicalDad · 15/10/2024 17:51

If the baby came from consensual sex, I think the father should be on the birth certificate. If they are useless or awful that needs managing, but it's a legal document, and I do think he should be there.

How do you propose to manage that then?

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:53

titchy · 14/10/2024 23:40

If he had been awful to me but good to her it would be wrong to keep her from him

It could be quite damaging to her actually. It normalises abuse of you, so when she grows up she thinks that's what adult men do.

If your father beat your mother black and blue, as an adult do you think you'd have a lovely relationship with him? Or would you hate the very bones of him?

This would only normalise abuse of mothers if I stayed with him. Thereby showing her that it's ok to tolerate abuse.

If we were I'm teaching my daughter not to take abuse from a husband, but then if he was a good dad to her then I'm not teaching her any bad examples. I certainly wouldn't teach her that if I fall out with your dad over something you have to too.

The only thing that teaches children it's okay for dads to abuse mums is staying with the man who is abusing you and tolerating it. In which case the birth certificate is irrelevant because you all live together!

OP posts:
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 17:53

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:43

Oh yes let me rethink how I feel about myself and how I view the world because some cantankerous women on Mumsnet tells me to!

Not sure why everyone on here is so against mens rights that it's shocking that a woman thinks men should have any. Equality is for everyone not just women. The misandry a lot of people demonstrate is excruciating. I hope none of you show this much contempt to your husbands and sons.

It's not that I don't care about men's rights.

It's just that I think men's rights are a lower priority than women's rights and children's rights.

SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 15/10/2024 17:52

Id go so far as to suggest that an DNA test should be carried out to ensure the father IS the father.

How do you think this would be paid for, and what if the man/men the mother names don't want to cooperate? It sounds very impractical.

ACynicalDad · 15/10/2024 17:51

If the baby came from consensual sex, I think the father should be on the birth certificate. If they are useless or awful that needs managing, but it's a legal document, and I do think he should be there.

Soontobe60 · 15/10/2024 17:49

A birth certificate should be a factual record of who the parents are of a baby, plus when and where the baby was born. Id go so far as to suggest that an DNA test should be carried out to ensure the father IS the father. Obviously there are times when the mother will not have the details of the father, so his details would remain blank.
Having one’s name on a BC should not automatically give a father PR against the wishes of the mother, but neither should the wishes of the mother to not put his details on the BC be an automatic right.
The thing is, we see a BC as more than what it really is - a record of birth.
I also believe any baby who is created as a result of surrogacy (which is tantamount to child trafficking IMO) should have the details of it’s mother and father on the BC, as should babies who are adopted at birth. Keeping secrets and hiding information which is often discovered later in life never ends well for the person who holds the BC.

SoiledMyselfDuringSomeTurbulence · 15/10/2024 17:47

It's interesting that OP hasn't engaged with any of the posts explaining to her that she's wrong to blithely assume she could protect her DC from an abusive father with PR.

PiggleToes · 15/10/2024 17:45

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:43

Oh yes let me rethink how I feel about myself and how I view the world because some cantankerous women on Mumsnet tells me to!

Not sure why everyone on here is so against mens rights that it's shocking that a woman thinks men should have any. Equality is for everyone not just women. The misandry a lot of people demonstrate is excruciating. I hope none of you show this much contempt to your husbands and sons.

Do you think we live in a world where men as a group face structural disadvantages and inequalities?

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 17:43

GabriellaMontez · 15/10/2024 17:24

You should be.

Your obsession with 'rights', particularly men's rights is excruciating.

All whilst avoiding any mention of the word that really matters 'responsibility'.

Oh yes let me rethink how I feel about myself and how I view the world because some cantankerous women on Mumsnet tells me to!

Not sure why everyone on here is so against mens rights that it's shocking that a woman thinks men should have any. Equality is for everyone not just women. The misandry a lot of people demonstrate is excruciating. I hope none of you show this much contempt to your husbands and sons.

OP posts:
GabriellaMontez · 15/10/2024 17:24

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 15:06

I'm not embarrassed at all. There have been some very informative posts where people have civil and have been interested to read and given insight into why people say "don't let him go on the birth certificate" when it turns out they can't stop him anyway.

Most people have just shouted childish things and menz and wimminz and embarrassed themselves.

You should be.

Your obsession with 'rights', particularly men's rights is excruciating.

All whilst avoiding any mention of the word that really matters 'responsibility'.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/10/2024 17:17

Soontobe60 · 15/10/2024 17:11

Whilst I understand your viewpoint, presumably having him named as father would have made not a jot to how he behaved towards you.

It would have given him parental responsibility for her.

Soontobe60 · 15/10/2024 17:11

bakewellbride · 14/10/2024 19:29

Some fathers are very, very bad people and 100% should not be on the birth certificate. They are evil scum bags.

Mine wasn't on mine. He did utterly horrific things to me, sexually abused me and could have killed me (he is now dead). What good do you think could have come from having him on my birth certificate?

Whilst I understand your viewpoint, presumably having him named as father would have made not a jot to how he behaved towards you.

TicTac80 · 15/10/2024 17:03

OP, "reporting" someone with PR doesn't then make it easy to prevent contact. When I found out extent of XH's issues, I reported it: to the police (how he treated me, his DUI etc), SS (I wanted to do all I could to ensure that DC were safe and I wanted input from them to see that I was doing all I could) and to the DC's schools. The ONLY thing that helped me was PSO (for XH to have just supervised contact). Even then, the PSO lasted a year (had XH not sorted himself out, I could have applied to have it extended). Luckily the Judge also ordered a CAO which gave my DC some more protection (they were to reside with me only, and no overnight stays with XH, even after PSO finished).

The PSO cost me thousands (solicitor fees, Court etc). Not everyone has that sort of money. I needed the solicitor as I was also working FT, parenting the DC on my own, going through a nasty divorce, grieving the death of my parents (and the end of my marriage*).

*I couldn't have predicted that XH would turn out like he did. Not when I met him, not when I agreed to marry him and not when we TTC and had a DC together. As I said in a previous post, he did sort himself out and behave better, but that PSO meant that I didn't have to risk handing DC over to him when he wasn't in any fit state to parent DC.

HorsePeopleAreStablePeople · 15/10/2024 16:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

No. This is your assessment. It's worth no more than anyone elses. And neither is your opinion. No one is making you hang around here in outrage, you can just leave you know.

OP posts: