To not understand the snobbery around skiing?

Given my username, I feel almost obliged to comment on this thread!

Yes, I do think that there has historically been a social class litmus test element to skiing. I am well spoken (but not from a wealthy background) and spent my university years and early twenties being asked two questions at almost every social occasion:

‘Where did you go to school?’
‘Do you ski?’

I suspect that my frank and honest answers confused many people who were assuming that I was ‘one of them’!

Given that the ski-chalet holiday experience was originally modelled on the English country house weekend and, in the eighties, there was a virtual conveyor belt taking nice-but-not-too-bright-girls from boarding school, to Leith’s cookery school, to a season as a chalet host, to a marriage with one of the ‘right background’ guests, I think it is naive to think of it as having anything other than upper middle class origins. Doesn’t skiing feature in the Sloane Ranger Handbook for god’s sake? ;)

There is a rather funny BBC documentary on YouTube about the early days of skiing holidays. It seems to intentionally draw a comic comparison between the ‘to the manor born’ plummy-voiced confident skiers and working-class Rita, Bill, Bob and Sue (not real names) taking a package holiday and then mucking it up in magnificent style the first time they get on a ski lift.

My DH and I learned to ski in our early thirties and have been numerous times. He is an expert skier, our DC is good and I have reached a point where I can ski most blue or red slopes but don’t think further improvement is very likely!

The internet has democratised skiing to a certain extent. But it is expensive and I still think it’s something that you need to invest a lot of time and money in before you get to the point where it is truly enjoyable as a family holiday.

Just thinking about the families in my close circle, one of them went to turkey this year but it's the first time her 15 and 11 year olds had ever been on holiday. Other than that no one else has been on more than a caravan holiday since before COVID

I think people who only have 1 holiday per year - which is skiing- are in a minority

Almost everyone I know who goes skiing , has (at least) 1 or 2 other holidays, some of them have multiple ski breaks as well as other holidays.

And the people proclaiming that they are doing quite budget ski holidays because they and kids can already ski, and already have kit are slightly missing the point. You don't need any lessons, or skills, or special clothes to go on an AI holiday - or Disney - since that's been brought into the discussion. So starting from nothing I think skiing would be expensive. (Adding flights then Disney very likely would be more) And ski lessons are a) not widely available depending on where you live, and b) a lot more expensive than eg swimming, dance, football, gymnastics, scouts or other kids activities.

No, you shouldn't have to apologise for it, but that's not how I read the thread.
I saw it as
OP - Why do people think skiing is for the middle/upper classes
Lots of people - because it's expensive.
Lots of other people - oh it's not really expensive, it's no more expensive than going to Disney/the Med in ummer. Completely missing the point that a)they're comparing to holidays that lots of people can't afford anyway, and that even less people can afford two holidays. So it is expensive* *which is why people think it's mostly well off people who do it.
I also grew up fairly poor and now have a very comfortable lifestyle. I sail. People think that's "posh" and it certainly can be very posh - there are yacht clubs who wouldn't let me in for sure! But I spend less on sailing than many of my colleagues do on skiing. Or wine come to that. And we rarely do much else with our holidays except sail. Ita matter of priorities. We choose to spend a lot of our disposable income on our boat. Nothing wrong with that and I don't apologise for it either. But I do acknowledge that being able to do that is a privilege that a large percentage of the population don't have. It's not as expensive as people probably think it is, but it is expensive. Same with skiing.

This is very true! Very well put

@TheCoolOliveBalonz ha ha! That is me. I was on the fringes of a group at university who went skiing each year and they invited me. I weighed that up with the Classics Society trip to Rome I had also been invited to - TBH they probably cost the same and I had to work the whole holidays to afford either trip. But Rome I KNEW I would enjoy (being a massive history geek and very in to my food). Whereas I was a bit nervous or both skiing and the type of people who went seeing as I had never been before.

Obviously some better off students went on both trips with no hesitation.

It's less about the sport but the "vibe" and apres ski. As someone who hates skiing and cannot ski, I personally find ski culture so fucking tedious because you are pressured to send your kids to ski camp from nursery age. Most friends of ours do this starting from age 3. We tried it with DD and she could barely balance on the skis and started crying from the cold after 10mins. Then it's all about ensuring your child learns how to ski perfectly by their teens, during which they'll inevitably go through a snowboarding phase which requires more equipment and more risk.

And finally, the goal for adulthood is that they love skiing and make friends with other people who grew up exactly the same way so they can have annual ski holidays that involve sport during the day and copious drinking every evening. After 18, it's never about just skiing (which would be naff if anyone admitted it). It's mostly about partying on a mountain and meeting other people from wealthy backgrounds so everyone can indulge in their elitism together.

There's also a huge unspoken element of race involved. Virtually all families who take skiing very seriously are white/caucasian. Lots of people from ethnic backgrounds may be able to afford to ski but it's just not a sport that's heavily emphasised in their culture or holiday traditions. So ski resorts are also extremely homogeneous, and 95% of everyone there are white. In contrast to other luxury holidays (yachting, tropical locations, urban centres etc), it's the one place where there is virtually no ethnic diversity.

@CautiousLurker Frankly, any opportunity to bash people who have a bit of extra cash in their pockets, however they chose to spend it, seems to be a national past time.
TBF isn't this post more about people who think ski-ing is normal and anyone can afford it? I don't think anyone cares about anyone else being well off and choosing to spend their money in that way. It's just about acknowledging that's an option for you, but not one open to the vast vast majority of people, even those able to afford foreign (and maybe even AL) holidays.

Indeed. Ski hire for 4 people is costing us nearly that on its own, that’s direct with the sports shop in the resort. And lift passes are twice that. I think there’s been an miscalculation somewhere…..

Good can you hear yourself!
Going on three extravagant holidays a year IS well off.

I have been skiing for one week as an adult.
I went with a group of friends.
Some of the group did not ski, they went swimming, sight & apres ski seeing in the local lower level towns.
I paid for adult lessons & a ski lift pass.
I wore my normal out door gear, plus I hired boots & skis.
I enjoyed the holiday.

I agree that some people who ski, probably have more than one holiday per year.

I remember clearly having a very serious conversation with an ex about whether to take up an invite to go on a skiing holiday with friends. Neither of us had been before but I think we understood this invite in our twenties was a decision as to what kind of adults we wanted to become. We didn't go. Expensive, cold, dangerous and we obviously weren't keen enough to move up the social classes!!!!

@xxSideshowAuntSallyxx TBF people who go to Disney don't do it very often, and I've never heard of anyone doing it every year! It's normally a once in a childhood thing. Although, I'm not sure what the point of this comparison. Clearly the vast vast majority of people could never afford a Disney in Florida holiday.

It is expensive

There are ways you can get a price down though.

We used to:

Book self catering with Pierre et vacance. They have a lot of self catering flats in alpine ski-ing areas. They are set up for French people though so the people who check you in etc often don't speak English.

Drive over to the apartment. Book a hotel overnight on route - the equivalent of a French premier inn. Use Eurotunnel or a ferry.

We pre-made a lot of stews etc as the cooking facilities in the apartments are limited and the food in resort is expensive (also we were veggie and French people have trouble with that concept). We took them with us in a freezer bag.

Children's clothing came from eBay over the year. Kids grow out of ski clothing from one year to the next so it never gets much wear. Sell the old stuff on eBay, buy the new. Adults you only need to buy clothing once.

Ski rental etc we never found a way of getting the price down. If you were happy to use last season's skis that had a new edge on them it was a little bit cheaper but not much.

Pre booking passes in advance can get you up to 10% off and they sometimes did offers early in the season (local language required)

It was still about 4-5k all in with petrol and road passes etc.

I miss ski-ing. I had an accident and now can't really walk much less ski.

@coffeesaveslives

The snow is highly variable. Occasionally really good, mostly ok, sometimes none.

The funicular is currently broken for the millionth time which really limits the runs.

But, it's just up the road.

Glencoe and Nevis Range are much more of a journey for us. Glenshee is just as close but I find it rather icy. The Lecht is just a wee hill so really only for beginners.

It might be a second holiday - but most of my friends who took their families skiing when young spent their second summer holiday in gites/euro camping. Ie, they have the same annual budget, but they split it and prioritise it. Now, granted, even with a Eurocamp/ski cmpbo they may have more of a budget than some on here - but then we are not talking about ‘skiing’ are we, that’s become a foil for people to discuss the fact that they simply have less money than other PPs for holidays. ‘Skiing’ holidays is, therefore a red herring because in ten minutes or tomorrow, there will be the OP about AI holidays being expensive, or ‘are Mark Warner holidays the preserved of the monied middle classes’ [other middle class holiday providers also apply].

Frankly, any opportunity to bash people who have a bit of extra cash in their pockets, however they chose to spend it, seems to be a national past time.

Having grown up on the poverty line in a shitty council flat in London, I’m sick of it. I won’t apologise for being able to afford to take my kids on two holidays, skiing, etc., or even being able to feed and clothe them in the way my mother failed to do for my sisters and I.

It wasn’t OP’s intention, but these posts on MN always bring out the middle class bashers and the inverted snobbery.

Exactly!

@FlingThatCarrot Yes and no. It was two weeks, but did include the half term week. (My kids currently all pre-school.)

@FlingThatCarrot Yes and no. It was two weeks, but did include the half term week. (My kids currently all pre-school.)

Where on earth are lift passes, ski hire and lessons (even if only for the kids) less than £350 for 4 people?

I'm proper riff-raff, and I love skiing. Learned as an adult as never went abroad on family holidays as a kid, and certainly not skiing.

The odd thing about skiing is that it gets cheaper the richer you are. If you have friends with a chalet in the Alps, you have your own kit, and you don't need ski school as you learned as a child, then it's not going to cost you much more than your flights and lift pass - but if you're common like me, you don't have all that privilege baked in and it gets very pricey.

When I was younger (in my 20s/30s) I went skiing every year. I wasn't rich and that week it was my main or only holiday every year. I went to cheaper resorts in France and Bulgaria and I can confirm that even back in the 80s, 90s and 00s there were plenty of riff-riff there.

That's the off peak price though isn't it? Canaries in Feb is yhe same as skiing in Scotland or April Alps skiing. You can easily get deal. There's plenty of cheaper locations, bunk type rooms rather than luxury hotels. We used to take sandwiches up the mountain instead of eating out.