UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

I'm not arguing that it isn't a factor, especially at a global level but it isn't just that in the UK, it is covering up economic factors caused by wealth inequalities that aren't being addressed. Housing is a huge problem, if you are a professional paying over more than a third of your monthly salary on rent as is the case in my city, how can you possibly throw in the cost of a baby. It is completely changing the culture and tone of the city and not for the better IMO.

Haven't RTFT so perhaps somebody has already mentioned it, but presumably the growing prevalence of fertility problems is also contributing to this. I know so many healthy youngish (early thirties) people, male and female, who have really struggled to concieve. Sometimes IVF has helped and sometimes it hasn't - and as the NHS only pays for limited cycles of IVF and it's very expensive, many of them can't afford to have many cycles.

The reasons for female infertility are well-documented, but male infertility is less talked about. However, sperm counts are currently declining by around 2.6% per year, and there is fewer things that can be done to help.

"it's the best thing I ever did"

I believe you.

It's a statistical fact that the more educated women are, the fewer children they have.

This is the point I'm trying to make. The demographics of my area have completely changed so it was a big family area in it's hey day and then families were priced out and lots of young house sharers now- we are one of two families on our road that is near a station where the trains go to London and in both our cases the children are teenagers. We have the infant/junior school system and infant schools are closing as the classes are half empty with current intake and projected.

But is has been proven that increased education of women correlates with faking birth rates. Why that is is probably more complex than educated women “rejecting the lowly status of mother” but what is clear is that as female autonomy and education grows, birth rates fall.

I don't really think it is just about being educated, I'm educated to Masters degree level/postgraduate as are many of my friends and siblings and sibling in laws but we all have teenagers now as had them in the 00s or early 10s. I am therefore not convinced of the argument that highly educated women equates to rejecting the lowly status of motherhood, is the whole picture. Equally, a PP stated young people have more choice but do they, in what way do they as it is certainly not the case when choosing where to live as they are priced out of many areas, they are having to settle with living parents way beyond the young adult years, a prospect that my friends and I didn't have to contemplate.! I think this just overlooks the fundamental problem which is 'money' and affordability. Where I live the fertility rate is well below the national average and the number of births has fallen by 30% since 2014. It seems a bit of a coincidence that it is now one of the most expensive parts of the country to live in. I don't think it is helpful to just state 'education' and imply motherhood is beneath you as some people do want children and they want to address the issues around that in this country.

I do think a lot of it is this. People cannot afford bigger families or people who wanted kids but are childless by circumstance (I am also like that. Always children. Was never in a position to have them due to lack of a suitable partner.)

I know a lot of childless women and only three are childfree. The rest wanted them but life never worked out like that for them.

This.

Plus your parents living longer and higher retirement age - who is available to help with childcare.

Expense, leaving it later, and more people moving away from networks.

My sister would have loved to be a mum. Unfortunately she dated someone who strung her along until she was 35 then dumped her out of the blue. She's been single ever since, now nearing 40 - and it's looking increasingly unlikely.

She doesn't want to do it by herself because a) she can't afford it/there's no way she could afford childcare c) we don't have family to help out so she would truly be 100% alone.

So whilst there are lots of people choosing not to have them (like me) I think sadly the people who do want them are also finding it much harder.

My Mum in an areas I can't afford to live in - siblings are luckily in HA housing - say the same so many kids - but when you look at the figures for entire county it's still down. I think she just in area with good schools and is around in day so see them.

Here where I am - all the school are full - it's because the surrounding cities are pricing families out so they move here - driving prices up for locals.

This is why we collect national figures so we can see what is actually going on. Bigger families still exists but figures I last looked at showed they were down for all social economic groups.

Surely it’s not that hard to understand why this is happening.

piss poor maternity health care
high childcare costs
high housing costs

simple

Even in Africa I have read it varies widely from country to country with many countries also experiencing a fall.

There are various maps out there showing fertility this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

Replacement rate is 2.1 - most countries in the world are below replacement level or near to it. We should be nearing a world peak then have a rapid drop in world wide population in next few decades end of century.

There a drop but for us in UK we've had a more sudden drop than in previous decades when there was a decline - we've been below replacement level in UK since late 1970s I believe.

I live in a poor area. I see many with big families still. Most people have three in those areas. In the more expensive areas mainly one or two.

Even in Africa I have read it varies widely from country to country with many countries also experiencing a fall.

I think it's so much work now too. I have 1. Was a single parent from when he was 18 months and had to do alot alone. No way could I do that and working full time again. I'd keel over. .

.

Absolutely.

It's not that long ago that women still had to get married, it was society's expectation and pretty much the only way to have any independence (such as it was at a time when laws around divorce and matrimony were much more heavily weighted in the favour of men and women were treated as chattels). If all the good men were taken then you had to take what you could get, meaning that even the crappiest of men could probably find a wife who'd have to put up with him.

Nowadays many women are rightfully more discerning. Why do you want to be shackled to someone who makes your life worse? If someone is lazy and selfish when you co-habit (the ultimate in "try before you buy"), they won't improve when children arrive but now you're stuck not only with them (even if you divorce you'll have to co-parent/chase for maintenance) but a child you're doing all the heavy lifting for. The hundreds if not thousands of threads on here lamenting dismal men who've let their partners down left, right and centre serve as a cautionary tale.

It's not shameful to be single any more, or to live alone and studies repeatedly show that men are most happy when they're married and women when they're single. Wonder why that is...?

Not sure what you are trying to say here.

We've had the biggest drop in fertility rates in G7 - more than Italy - and Italy like Japan in a downwards spiral of fertility - and that what the thread was about I thought.

We are still better than many countries in Europe - true - but we are suddenly having faster dropping rate - that's what experts are attributing to austerity and cuts - as we were only ones who did this.

If we continue to have huge drop in fertility rates we will stop being in the middle of the fertility tables and start to move up - as our fertility rates start to catch up with countries with lower fertility.

I'm well aware of the higher fertility in Sub-Saharan Africa - most growth in population is going to be coming from I think 2-3 countries in that region - I mentioned that. I'm also aware of South Korea rates ( and some reasons why) and well as rest of Asia. I'm also aware the global fertility rate is 2.3 where 2.1 is replacement level. I also know that despite death rates and birth rates being very close our UK population is still growing due to immigration.

I was commenting on the drop in fertility rate in UK - we have background decline seen in nearly every country and an accelerated decline unique to UK.

@UsernameHistoryBook

I agree that a smaller population is beneficial from an economic and environmental perspective.

Reducing the local population can be achieved through lower fertility rates and or greatly reducing immigration.

Lower fertility rates can be seen to be a matter of women's right to choose, although given the costs of raising children and also women's rights in countries of high fertility it is questionable whether this is true.
Greatly reducing immigration although equally beneficial tends to get caught up in right / left politics and accusations of racism.

We really only need to be encouraging middle earners and higher earners to have more children.

The £100k tax trap needs upping considerably to £150k, and childcare needs to be subsidised for all, but especially higher earners.

Our childcare bill for 2 children is £4k a month!!!

Being new to the job market in 2008. Various pat/ recruitment freezes making it harder to forge a career/ be happy to have proper relationships until I hit 30. First child early/ mid-30s, but complications affecting gallbladder. Operation delayed because of COVID. COVID implications on job market/ career progression. New job, do wait for mat leave rights to kick in before trying. Then in late 30s. Two miscarriages and kid 2 arrives. If I wanted a third (always did) I'll be early 40s.. which may/ may not happen. DH thinks money/ our health means it is unwise to try for third. Had various economic factors not been in play, DH and I would have dated, married, and started TTC in late 20s rather than early 30s. Would almost certainly have had a third child.

@SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun

"Most of the commentary on this big UK drop point out nearly all the world bar sub-Saharan Africa is having lowering of fertility - but we seem to have gone faster than other G7 countries and they are blaming austerity - and note it's happening fastest in poorer areas of UK."

The fertility rate in the UK is 1.6 which is about mid table compared to other European countries (Germany 1.5, Spain 1.3, Italy 1.3) or (France 1.8, Ireland 1.8).

In Africa there are still very high rates (Niger 6.6, Somalia 6, Nigeria 5).

At the other extreme is South Korea at 0.9.

Partly it's the fact that women are expecting more from men now and not settling.

In South Korea the birth rate has dropped intentionally as a means of protest by women.