UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

I mean
Yeah you could have adventures, lots of sex, plenty cash, plenty sleep, see your friends whenever you want, all round have a great time
Or
...
If you want kids great but if you don't it sounds like a horror show

I very much agree. There are far more women who are wanting to marry and start a family then there are men particularly in their 20/30s.

My thoughts are that decades ago if a man wanted regular sex, his best bet was to find a partner and settle down. Being a responsible man, working and supporting a family was a small price to pay for this
Nowadays because of the internet and dating apps, it'such easier for men to find regular sex without having to put in much effort...in fact they don't even need to have the chutzpah to chat up a woman in person anymore.

Quite. I see that lesbians also don't feature in this masterplan.

How would you persuade them to want to do something that's totally contrary to happiness for a lot of (most?) people? At least women get hormones to make it more bearable.

@Imperfectionist were you going to include the valid choice not to have children at all in your education program?

It’s all about men.

If I worked for the Government’s behavioural science “Nudge” unit, I’d target men in the late teens / early twenties to persuade them to want children before they are thirty, within a loving, respectful and equal relationship.

My plan would be to influence young men to find a partner, commit and settle down as young as possible, with clear messaging that this is a route to happiness, as well as social wellbeing.

Indicator : more committed couples having their first child before they turn 25

Tactics : all outlined in this thread, housing, childcare, women’s rights, respect for mothers and strong role models in popular culture, community support. Realistic expectations of parenting - not aspirational. Stop people overthinking it all (see also: influence of social media).

et voila.

Lots of people not wanting to bring a child into this world aa it is.

Not an option for me now, but I'd struggle to see the logic with what they would have to live with

This is very true. They just kept printing money to shore things up, and not the chickens are well and truly roosting.

Capitalism has collapsed (pretty much since 2008 crash)

we never recovered from 08, low interest rates just masked it.

For me it's because of fertility issues (basically had unprotected sex with dh for 9 years since age 22) but on another level, I am also stressed from work and own a fairly small 2 bed flat so there are times when I think being childfree may not be that terrible.

How is that different from the world wars, the cold war, any other war during history? The only difference I see is better choices for women and more access to contraception.

Capitalism has collapsed (pretty much since 2008 crash) and the west is in a real funk and denial.

The other side of the planet is in constant warfare (middle east/Russia).

@HellsBalls I think employment opportunities will have to change tbh as subsequent generations shrink. Gen Z is already smaller than the Millennials and the current generation, Alpha, looks to be smaller still. So working longer will become the norm as we can’t rely on the next generation to take over.

Good luck finding an employer when between the ages of 60 and 75.
That said, if there is such a shortage of workers, maybe there will be opportunities? I suspect not though.

Yep. And it'll come quick because the NHS is already hopeless. Know so many people with cancer that has gone incurable while waiting for NHS treatment.

We’re aware already! I don’t know any millennial or gen z who is expecting to get a state pension or indeed any help whatsoever at the state pension age of 75 (as it’ll be then). We’re expecting to die at work!

The amount of weed smoked by young men won't help.

I read a great book about this recently, called Count Down, by Shanna Swan which explains the science and shows that both male and female fertility has rapidly declined over past few decades (due to pollution), and we are physically less able to conceive than our grandparents were at our age.

If it continues, she and others think there’ll be a fertility crisis. The Guardian did an article on this: https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/28/shanna-swan-fertility-reproduction-count-down

Hopefully by then we will have euthanasia.

Sorry to sound flippant but I know a few people whonhave watched elderly parents decline over years with incurable illnesses and its been very traumatic.amd drawn-out. It's not something I'd want to go through.

@Vettrianofan NI?

@Jhound. I agree that people will have to get used to paying for things, but surely there’ll also be a scarcity value as the population ages? Someone who is 30 now will have fewer younger people to provide any type of service to them when they’re 80 (regardless of their ability to pay).

Europe is the west.

The sheer number of people wanting to come to “the west” suggests there is very much a future here for those who want it.

Even in countries not classed as 'developed', birth rates are in decline. India and China for example. The Chinese really didn't need the 'one child policy', as birth rates would soon have declined without it. Now they are encouraging women to have more children!

Africa is the only exception, but within a decade or two, the same thing will also happen there. Female education and work opportunities are a huge factor. When women have the chance to complete their education and work outside the home, they will start having children later, or perhaps not at all. Unfortunately this isn't the case yet in much of Africa, hence birth rates as high as 7 per woman in some countries.

I never said there was a sunset, but a certain hopelessness pervades in this specific dead empire.

As I said, a person can work until they drop and still not afford shelter here. This is not comparable to many places in Europe.