UK fertility rate drops by 18.8% in 12 years

Don't seem to be fewer children where I live. Most people seem to have three here. It is a deprived city in areas.

I do think infertility is on the rise though.

The title of this is rather disingenuous. People are having children later than the 'usual' (20s) ages, where they are at their most fertile. Therefore, it follows that individual fertility will be lower as they age. It is not the case the overall fertility of the country is dropping; people are still at their fertile best in their 20, it's just that they are choosing not to take advantage of this peak fertility, thus birthrate is falling.

We have a four and a half year gap so if it isn't age that might be the issue I would say go for it. Seem to notice many reception children have a new sibling that year.

The key reasons have been mentioned. Cost, housing, scary world and social media.

Where it was a norm to get married and have kids. You can now do and be whatever you want.

I think the emphasis on individualism plays a role.

I have 2 children - both surprises. Had one young when I was naive and managed to work my way up my career but I had a supportive “village” - so many people just don’t have the support. Plus it’s acceptable to not want them - and if you do want them then have them.

Children suite my lifestyle - and I think people are more conscious of if children fit theirs (which is actually a good thing) - I’m super homey - work for myself - enjoy parenting and don’t care for crazy global adventures - but if I didn’t fall pregnant I would delay having children as much as possible - simply because there is so much more you can do with life but also it harder to get the basics like a house, climb up for a decent salary etc.

Lots of my friends held off having children until being older (I don’t blame them). But now that they are finding their long term partners, issues around fertility has been a huge concern with my friendship group.

Are intellectual people not up at 3am then. You seem to weirdly making this personal. For some reason I have answered the question and you've told me as a non parent what it is to be good parent i.e take a pragmatic approach. I was suggesting that IME as hey, an actual parent with teens, this is not the be all and end all. They are a success but I never said anything about a 'wonderful' life, I've said my children brought and bring me joy, I'm not sure why that is an afront to you. Bringing up children is hard work no doubt about it but for me it was the best thing I ever did. I only mentioned my career as you can have an amazing career, and interesting life and still come to the conclusion that comparatively speaking having children is pretty good. It isn't for everyone, which is of course people's free choice but no need to denigrate parents on a parent forum by suggesting it is someone's 'entire' personality because when you do that on a parent forum, it looks very much like it is your 'entire' personality to make the point that you're superior to parents everywhere.

Childcare and everything else!
Middle dd has a 3 year old, off to School next year. She has no desire to chuck herself back into paying out for 4 more years.

@grepes. I think that most people agree that longterm, a declining global population is a good thing

In the short term, it’ll be difficult in 50 years when older people greatly outnumber the young, unless we can develop the necessary technology.

I love it when at 3am somebody thinks they can claim some kind of intellectual or moral high ground by pretending to be as thick as muck, and unable to understand something they don't like hearing because a letter is missing from one word. Really shows the quality of a person that. Chefs kiss

I don’t understand why this is a problem? Global population is forever increasing, the burden on natural resources is unsustainable. Surely it’s a good thing fertility rates are declining?

Sorry, hard to decipher what you are stating due to spelling and grammar but your comments appear to reflect that you haven't understood what I am pointing out at all- perhaps I haven't explained it very well....

I'm answering the question of the thread title what are you doing? I don't think it is just about more 'choice' as is evidenced by this thread and some people want kids but due to current circumstances can't have them so it is surely the point of this thread to explore why that is.

@Goldenbear I agree that social pressure to have children has been decreasing for decades-I’m 50 and didn’t feel much pressure either. I think that my parent’s generation did though. Thankfully, most of today’s young adults don’t have any.

If people do a typical three year degree they finish university at 21. Still very young. And even without formal education a lot of people would want to enjoy some ChildFree years before trying to have children (assuming they find a suitable partner.)

You sound really unhappy and over involved in what other peole do for somebody who apparently has a wonderful successful life lol

Children are a lifestyle choice.

Who is relying on state pensions in this day and age?

Tories, that's the clear reason.

It’s not really snarky surely. Just good advice.

It’s expensive. People just cannot afford the lifestyles they want with larger families.

I’m 28. Child free by choice. My list of reasons is extensive.

-Men are too unpredictable. You can marry them and be together for decades. There’s no guarantee they won’t fuck off with the 20 year old co worker and leave you to be a single parent.
-Raising children (in an actual good way) takes a lot more time and effort than modern women have to do it properly.
-Im poor, systematically poor with no way to get out of poverty
-Housing crisis means I can’t even rent for myself, let alone a house big enough for children
-My untreated mental health would not make me a good candidate for parenthood. Our healthcare system is too strained for me to access any help that would help me resolve this.

Honestly there’s more, but that’s just a few of the many reasons.

I'm mid 40s and really don't think there was a social pressure to have children, I really don't know anyone who felt that they had to have children. I know lots of people who had children mid to late 00s and it was an easier time to have DC than when I had my last in the 10s- housing was more affordable, food was more affordable and smart phones weren't distracting everyone and making them miserable. Equally, the quality of my hospital stay the second time around was dire so I could see why nobody would want to repeat that and by all accounts it is much worse now.

Anecdotally, the parents I know who are a lot older with teens tend to treat them like children even when they are really young men or women so at sixth form or uni. I think having children in your twenties makes you realise that you are definitely not children in your twenties and I know that we don't treat our eldest like that and neither does the one other friend we know that had their first in their twenties.

And we'd have to stop seeing people in their 20s as children, too immature to do anything really important. The reason our young people are like that is because we don't give them real responsibility, not because they aren't capable.

@TempestTost I completely agree with this. I’ve seen it among my friends- those who expect their young adult children to get on with their lives experience fewer problems than the parents who helicopter and constantly rescue. Why bother to stick with a job/manage your money, for example, if you know that Mum and Dad will swoop in and pay all your bills?

Yeah, I think that so long as childbearing is largely pushed into the 30s, you are going to see a reduction in kids overall. Some will not meet anyone, some will be infertile, many will only be able to manage one. The fact is the 20s are women's most fertile 10 years.

And it's not just pushed into the 30s, there are people who are pushing it into the early 40 as well.

I've wondered if it might not be a social good in many ways to make a real effort to look at the length of time we have young people in education. I am all for general education, but the fact of the matter is we have many jobs asking for degrees that are unnecessary, where people could learn on the job, in apprenticeships, or even forgo university altogether. It's a huge cost to society, and it's a cost to individuals, and it also an indirect cost as it keeps them out of the workforce for something like four years - often more.

So you have people not even beginning earning until about 25, they have a debt and want to establish themselves. Plus, you are not going to give that up for kids, you've invested too much.

There could be a lot to be said for most people going to work by the time they are 20 and earning, starting without a debt, or possibly in some cases for women to have kids fairly young (assuming a reasonable partner) and then going into a career afterwards, which would be much more manageable if they didn't need four more years of education.

It would need a real change in attitudes to education, professionalization, and mothers though. And we'd have to stop seeing people in their 20s as children, too immature to do anything really important. The reason our young people are like that is because we don't give them real responsibility, not because they aren't capable.

I think it’s great that people now feel comfortable making the choices that feel right for them. The social pressure to have a family is definitely decreasing and Gen Xer’s like me have no expectations that our teenagers/young adult children will have families.

I believe that the UN and other entities have estimated that the global population will peak in the 2080’s and then start declining. A much larger portion of the population will be over 65 then, so it’ll be rough for older people later this century as there won’t be enough working younger people in proportion to them.

Eventually the numbers will even out, but if we think it’s difficult getting services now, it’ll be a lot worse in 30 to 50 years.

Cost obviously. Both DH and I come from what were reasonably comfortable upper middle class backgrounds (private school, large houses etc.) in the 90s/00s and there is no way we can give our children that kind of lifestyle. Simply down to the cost of living changing so much.

Also the expectation of child rearing seems so much higher and more expensive due to late stage capitalism being bonkers.

Of friends who do have children it is very much quickly pump out two in your mid to late 30s (for me 33 and 36 which is on the young side) and being too old/broke/knackered to have more. Some people have stuck at one due to either cost or fertility issues.

But I have lots of friends without. The vast majority of my uni friends haven't due to settling down late or being with men who keep putting it off. Now quite a few are having fertility problems. Also lots of them just have nice life styles and are unwilling to change them or quite ambivalent about children.

We also has fertility issues due to male factor and I wonder how many people have sub-fertility and what the long term implications are.

I don't mind the population being boosted by immigration but will there be enough people to pay into the tax pot in 40 years when I need a pension?! Seeing as this is a world wide trend.