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To ask why Americans seem fixated on conspiracy theories?

82 replies

movingonok · 12/10/2024 13:13

I know other nations are too but not to the extent of Americans.

Is there a simple answer? Mistrust of authorities?

Not just today's guff but all the way back to alien abductions and assassination of JFK etc.

OP posts:
User14March · 12/10/2024 19:50

Excellent post @mathanxiety thank you.

mathanxiety · 12/10/2024 19:18

I live in a suburb of a major US city, like the vast majority of Americans, natives and immigrants alike. It's a city and suburban area that always votes Democratic and I don't see that changing. I'd have to drive at least 100 miles before seeing a Trump billboard.

A huge number of immigrants to America in the 19th century left their home countries because they felt they had no choice. Millions of Irish, Jews, southern Italians, and others, including a huge number of Scandinavians and Poles (counted as Prussians, Austrians, and Russians because Poland per se was divided among those states) left to avoid starvation, grinding poverty, oppression, or violence. It wasn't all wild-eyed adventurers in search of streets paved with gold. Many stayed in the cities, whose administrations they soon dominated. The exception was the Scandinavians. Most of these people belonged to structured, mainstream religions - Judaism, obv, Catholicism, Lutheranism.

Many of the people who arrived in the US earlier, from England, Scotland and Ulster, brought with them experiences of religious persecution and/ or the experience of being unwelcome planters in a foreign land (Ulster). They arrived in a land where they were often under attack, naturally, because they were occupying land that wasn't theirs. This reinforced their siege mentality.

Some stayed in the fertile land and developed a society and economy that had plantation elites at its apex, the society that eventually caused the Civil War. Some kept pushing west into the Appalachian mountains, where they lived in isolated, self-regulating communities where people depended on each other for survival. These are the people who kept their religious fundamentalism (and distrust of Catholics) alive. You can see echoes of the Calvinism/ fundamentalism in JD Vance's book and his "political philosophy".

The African Americans who arrived here did not come willingly, and their experience of America was (and still is) significantly different from that of all others.

More recent immigrants include Asian and Hispanic populations. These groups both have strong regional influences and a growing presence in major cities, especially in the case of Hispanics. The French and Dutch, who were very early settlers, also had regional impacts. They arrived with money making primarily in mind.

Those who ended up settling the plains and the west were mainly people whose ancestors had been American for a few generations, who went further west than upstate New York or Pennsylvania or Tennessee or Kentucky, mixed in with millions of immigrant Scandinavians and Germans fleeing poverty. The settlement of California was boosted in the early 20th century by the arrival of Mexicans and also the poor escaping the Dust Bowl and agricultural depression in the south east. The African American population of northern industrial cities exploded during the Great Migration. Currently, the south west, Florida, and the north west experience migration from people from the north who are sick of cold winters, or techies. Cities like Raleigh-Durham, Atlanta, and Houston are also growing rapidly as employment opportunities beckon. These cities are markedly different in culture from many of the rural areas of the states they're situated in.

There are several different Americas.

GrouachMacbeth · 12/10/2024 19:14

Is there any research into the intellectual or intelligence/socio economic background of people who follow several conspiracy theories?

Before we start slagging a nation off, don't forget the MMR "doubt" and vaccine reluctance. A now discredited physician and support from a high selling newspaper here. Of course imagine this king the sun is the centre of our solar system! The communion wine is not literally Chists body and blood, the earth round dammit Janet what next?

Four hundred years of settlement by people's who sailed hundreds of miles with high risks, whether travelling by choice or not - the nation has achieved a great deal.

CulturalNomad · 12/10/2024 18:12

I’ve read that ADHD is more common in the USA as genetic

But in another recent thread someone was adamant that ADHD wasn't recognized as a "real" condition in the US....🤔

People on social media talk a whole lot of shite on both sides of the pond!

MrsCarson · 12/10/2024 18:05

My US friends and family are mostly descended from those adventurous Pioneers who took wagons across the country to find a place to live. It still shows in their attitude to life, they are fiercely independent not believing on relying on the government. Sickness is treated at home before deciding a doctor visit is needed.
Some who are financially doing well have even moved off grid as much as possible.
They do have a healthy scepticism of the government. Many do seem to believe in conspiracies.
But they also look after their friends and family in their community. They put their money where their mouth is and help fund all sorts, from jumpers for the baseball team, to helping fund cancer medications and home visits for end of life neighbours.
I didn't live in a city we were rural, in small towns, more on par with a UK village.

mathanxiety · 12/10/2024 17:54

User14March · 12/10/2024 15:43

I’ve read that ADHD is more common in the USA as genetic, re: risk takers. Risking a perilous sea voyage, unless religious persecution or similar the driver, like signing up for a trip to colonise moon today.

Pffft.

You've read that, aye?

Must be true, so.

Cheesecakecookie · 12/10/2024 17:54

I can understand being distrustful of medicine and “big pharma” - the pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and influence - politically and over individual doctors getting them to prescribe certain drug. And over insurance companies.

They also regularly withhold information on the medical trials they conduct from the scientific community.

The other stuff like weather control …totally bonkers - god knows. Maybe it’s all the shit they put in food and it makes people less intelligent or something.

mathanxiety · 12/10/2024 17:53

PermanentTemporary · 12/10/2024 16:12

An incredible number of Brits believe in conspiracy theories. Think how many people over here think Covid was a lab escape for example. And measles vaccination rates are really poor in some areas here, worse than the US even though the media promotes American anti-vax voices. It's the UK that us vecoming a dangerous pool of measles infection for Europe. I'm not sure there's much of a difference.

I wonder though if the nature of the theories believed is a bit different, and whether Americans are more likely to do something about a conspiracy theory (eg vote differently or take a gun to the Capitol) whereas Brits would be more likely to sit on our arses and not do something (refuse to vote, not get a baby vaccinated). I'm only speculating...

Or vote for Brexit...

Thank you for a very necessary corrective.

There is a massive dearth in critical thinking on the part of many British people on this thread - caused by a fatal combination of ignorance and prejudice, I'd hazard a guess.

mathanxiety · 12/10/2024 17:49

I think I'll start a thread about the woeful ignorance of many British people on the subject of America and Americans.

Honestly, give your heads a wobble.

bigvig · 12/10/2024 17:30

Maybe it's because the American government has a history of doing dodgy stuff and lying about it. I wouldn't use JFK as an example of a 'conspiracy theory'.

Rainbunny · 12/10/2024 17:27

I spent a few decades living in the USA and there are many reasons for this kind of thing.

I personally think some of the seeds were sown in the 1980s when Reagan rolled back the "Fairness Doctrine" that existed to force tv networks to show contrasting views on topics (like OFCOM has impartiality rules). Reagan's adviser had astutely realised that if they did away with the Fairness Doctrine then they could send their message to the public unhindered and much less challenged. It worked and within a short time a man called Rupert Murdoch showed up and set up Fox tv, 40 years later here we are.

Fox tv has spouted extremely one-sided vitriol at liberal America for forty years and helped create a media echo-chamber that has polarised Americans politically and led to a break down in trust, not only of the government but of other Americans. Fox tv is just one example, talk radio stations are big on this as well and of course... the internet!

Whatever people may complain about regarding the BBC, we should be grateful that we still have a mainstream media that observes the impartiality rule. It's why I'm so angry that GB News, a Fox tv copycat is blatantly violating this rule and happily paying fine after fine to OFCOM because OFCOM apparently has no teeth.

Shakeoffyourchains · 12/10/2024 16:54

Cerialkiller · 12/10/2024 15:00

I've always wondered at the cultural differences between Americans and the British. Baring in mind that America (at least the white population) is a nation primarily (and recently) descended from the brave and the foolish people who followed a crazy dream or felt disenfranchised by what they had in Europe and took a dangerous journey into the unknown.

You have to wonder if there is a significant variation in genetics as a result, maybe a higher degree of self belief over trusting authority or just a resistance to conformity or higher tolerance for risk. I've always wondered. Obviously its now 200-300 years since the gold rush and mass imegration. insignificant in genetic terms.

Also as a nation it's much easier in America to live a highly isolated life, that's would be difficult here just because of the population to land ratio. There are whole communities that cut themselves off there.

It's important to note that they may not in fact be more inclined to conspiracy, just more able/inclined to tell people about it online and so it comes across that way. I don't know if studies exist on either of these topics. Might go and have a look.

Baring in mind that America (at least the white population) is a nation primarily (and recently) descended from the brave and the foolish people who followed a crazy dream or felt disenfranchised by what they had in Europe and took a dangerous journey into the unknown.

Weren't a lot of the early settlers of America Puritans who were driven out of England for their fringe beliefs abou purifying the Church of England?

In any case, conspiracy theories are much more prevalent with the right and, since America is a pretty right wing country, it would stand to reason they'd have a lot of conspiracy lovers within their ranks.

Backwoods57 · 12/10/2024 16:43

As a Brit in the US, there is very little trust in the government here. People have no faith that the government can be trusted to protect them, or do the right thing. Neither Trump or Harris are going to better the lives of the middle class, they are just yet more lying politicians.

I personally believe in a few low level conspiracy theories, (Epstein and David Kelly were killed kinda thing) some people I guess are looking for additional reasons to hate the government, and take it to extremes.

Marmaladelover · 12/10/2024 16:41

LifeExperience · 12/10/2024 16:22

Oh, good, another America-bashing post. It's been at least a few days since we've had one.

There are 350 million of us, and pretty much all of us are online. OF COURSE there will be some crack pots.

It is true that most Americans are descended from some pretty adventurous folks. My own family history is absolutely wild, and I've had my adventures too. America is a self-selected group of people who rejected the status quo in the rest of the world.

As for the American dream, I was raised what you would call working class and am now a multi-millionaire. Dh and I worked, saved, invested wisely and here we are. Our son, who is 30, is close to millionaire status, and he's doing it the same way we did. Our daughter is a medical doctor who earns over $300K a year. Not everyone can achieve that, but I would put the lifestyle of the average American up against that of the average BRIT any day.

So, to the ignorant xenophobes on this thread, take it from a proud, born and bred woman of the American south, with ALL due sincerity, "Bless your hearts!"

It’s all about the money with some US citizens isn’t . I think we are supposed to impressed by the sums earned when this thread is about the lack of critical thinking ….oh wait Hmm

LifeExperience · 12/10/2024 16:22

Oh, good, another America-bashing post. It's been at least a few days since we've had one.

There are 350 million of us, and pretty much all of us are online. OF COURSE there will be some crack pots.

It is true that most Americans are descended from some pretty adventurous folks. My own family history is absolutely wild, and I've had my adventures too. America is a self-selected group of people who rejected the status quo in the rest of the world.

As for the American dream, I was raised what you would call working class and am now a multi-millionaire. Dh and I worked, saved, invested wisely and here we are. Our son, who is 30, is close to millionaire status, and he's doing it the same way we did. Our daughter is a medical doctor who earns over $300K a year. Not everyone can achieve that, but I would put the lifestyle of the average American up against that of the average BRIT any day.

So, to the ignorant xenophobes on this thread, take it from a proud, born and bred woman of the American south, with ALL due sincerity, "Bless your hearts!"

PermanentTemporary · 12/10/2024 16:12

An incredible number of Brits believe in conspiracy theories. Think how many people over here think Covid was a lab escape for example. And measles vaccination rates are really poor in some areas here, worse than the US even though the media promotes American anti-vax voices. It's the UK that us vecoming a dangerous pool of measles infection for Europe. I'm not sure there's much of a difference.

I wonder though if the nature of the theories believed is a bit different, and whether Americans are more likely to do something about a conspiracy theory (eg vote differently or take a gun to the Capitol) whereas Brits would be more likely to sit on our arses and not do something (refuse to vote, not get a baby vaccinated). I'm only speculating...

Dweetfidilove · 12/10/2024 16:06

Pastlast · 12/10/2024 13:23

You should reads books by Sarah Churchwell who argues that there is a sort of cognitive dissonance in American culture because and the gap between what the American dream promises and the reality. She argues it leaves them open to conspiracy theories.

Sounds interesting - going to check it out. Thank you 👍🏾

Dweetfidilove · 12/10/2024 16:04

rayofsunshine86 · 12/10/2024 14:53

My American SIL and her DH keep talking about how they know the US Government is controlling the world's weather, and that now people are finally starting to talk about it.

It blows my mind.

You actually know people who believe thos stuff 😬. I had convinced myself something was being misinterpreted 🤦🏾‍♀️.

Thepeopleversuswork · 12/10/2024 15:48

Pastlast · 12/10/2024 13:23

You should reads books by Sarah Churchwell who argues that there is a sort of cognitive dissonance in American culture because and the gap between what the American dream promises and the reality. She argues it leaves them open to conspiracy theories.

That’s interesting.

I also think social media feeds this because the algorithms reinforce the news people choose to read by feeding only material which plays to your particular ideological leaning.

Anf mainstream politicians of both stripes lean into this. Trump and his MAGA followers seem to actively push some of the craziest theories when they engage his base. They have cynically used the QAnon stuff though they must know it’s completely nuts.

User14March · 12/10/2024 15:43

unmemorableusername · 12/10/2024 15:19

I agree with this and wonder why it never forms part of the debate.

Surely a self selecting group (European migrants to USA in 1850-1950) will have had some difference s to those who chose to stay at home?

Like what you said the go getting risk takers who didn't want government control left. They've 'inbred' into a different ethnic group from remaining Europeans.

I’ve read that ADHD is more common in the USA as genetic, re: risk takers. Risking a perilous sea voyage, unless religious persecution or similar the driver, like signing up for a trip to colonise moon today.

blankittyblank · 12/10/2024 15:43

pestowithwalnuts · 12/10/2024 15:34

Trump..god knows where Yrumpy came from

Hahahah, sorry this really made me laugh 😂😂 Yrumpy

pestowithwalnuts · 12/10/2024 15:34

Trump..god knows where Yrumpy came from

GettingStuffed · 12/10/2024 15:31

There's also a difference in educational, there is little to no critical thinking throughout the educational system even at university level.

pestowithwalnuts · 12/10/2024 15:26

Maybe it's the same Americans who believe in Yrumpy

unmemorableusername · 12/10/2024 15:19

Cerialkiller · 12/10/2024 15:00

I've always wondered at the cultural differences between Americans and the British. Baring in mind that America (at least the white population) is a nation primarily (and recently) descended from the brave and the foolish people who followed a crazy dream or felt disenfranchised by what they had in Europe and took a dangerous journey into the unknown.

You have to wonder if there is a significant variation in genetics as a result, maybe a higher degree of self belief over trusting authority or just a resistance to conformity or higher tolerance for risk. I've always wondered. Obviously its now 200-300 years since the gold rush and mass imegration. insignificant in genetic terms.

Also as a nation it's much easier in America to live a highly isolated life, that's would be difficult here just because of the population to land ratio. There are whole communities that cut themselves off there.

It's important to note that they may not in fact be more inclined to conspiracy, just more able/inclined to tell people about it online and so it comes across that way. I don't know if studies exist on either of these topics. Might go and have a look.

I agree with this and wonder why it never forms part of the debate.

Surely a self selecting group (European migrants to USA in 1850-1950) will have had some difference s to those who chose to stay at home?

Like what you said the go getting risk takers who didn't want government control left. They've 'inbred' into a different ethnic group from remaining Europeans.