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Original poster

Cheshire Police are an incompetent bunch of useless bastards

363 replies

GossIsAGit · 12/10/2024 11:39

After Sally Clark

They should have remembered that If a doctor of medicine tells you that a coincidence is so unlikely it must mean a woman has been killing babies then maybe you should consult a statistician and actually listen.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

Lucy Letby: police and CPS handling of case raises new concerns about convictions

Exclusive: Letby’s barrister says application challenging verdicts is being prepared using expert medical evidence

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 13/11/2024 10:19

I love the phrase ‘so-called experts.’
It’s so Daily Mail.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 13/11/2024 10:17

I just think it’s amazing all these so called experts chiming up in support of this baby killer were nowhere to be seen during the time and in the place their statements would actually have been of any significance. In the witness box, during the trial. Their ramblings now are irrelevant.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 13/11/2024 10:14

GossIsAGit · 13/11/2024 06:49

You’d better ask them.

Show quote history

Presumably because it wasn’t relevant. I’m guessing His Majesty’s Counsel has greater oversight of and able to apprise the evidence better than you and all the other pound shop Columbos.

I agree the charts and other statistical evidence in and of themselves are not sufficient evidence of guilt but each piece of evidence is just a tiny thread in the whole
body considered by the jury - which only people who heard all of it can legitimately opine on.

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 13/11/2024 07:04

Dr McPartland certainly cast a lot of doubt on the Baby D case yesterday
“Not only was there pneumonia, there were hyaline membranes which indicated acute lung injury which you don’t normally see, so that did lead me to believe that there was more extensive lung injury from the pneumonia than you might expect, so that could explain then why the child didn’t behave as the clinicians might have expected.”
She added: “In my experience when babies have died often they do have a fluctuating course beforehand, and I have had cases before where the baby has collapsed, been resuscitated and then collapsed again and then eventually resuscitation fails, so a fluctuating course didn’t seem to be that unusual to me.
“And then obviously she has become mottled and stopped breathing again and her heart has stopped. So the whole picture did seem to suggest that she was unstable and very unwell.”

Why didn’t the defence call Dr McPartland is another good question.

OP posts:
Original poster
GossIsAGit · 13/11/2024 06:49

ThatsNotMyTeen · 13/11/2024 06:42

Why did the defence not call a statistician then?

You’d better ask them.

OP posts:
ThatsNotMyTeen · 13/11/2024 06:42

Why did the defence not call a statistician then?

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 13/11/2024 06:38

maddening · 12/11/2024 22:41

But the stats weren't just in Chester, in a prev hospital the breathing tubes were dislodged at 40% of Letby's compared to the usual rate of 1% - stats definitely have a part to play in these sorts of cases - where malicious incidents occur in a situation like a hospital and have often been a way that the killer or predator is identified.

I believe she is guilty.

From the Telegraph
“While the inquiry heard that tubes were dislodged on 40 per cent of Letby’s shifts, other scientists have pointed out that there is extensive scientific literature suggesting that breathing tubes can become dislodged in newborns between one per cent and 80 per cent of the time.”

Read the whole article here
https://archive.ph/Nw0b
Statistical evidence should be analysed by a statistician.
Cheshire Police have been the only force investigating.

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MistressoftheDarkSide · 12/11/2024 23:12

Thank you @GossIsAGit .

I really wish I could say more, as it's potentially "in the public interest" level stuff. However, knowing how careless and sensationalist reporting can damage people, and ruin the concepts of truth and justice, I have to remain frustratingly tight lipped. I really really hope it's not what it looks like right now, but only time will tell.

maddening · 12/11/2024 22:41

But the stats weren't just in Chester, in a prev hospital the breathing tubes were dislodged at 40% of Letby's compared to the usual rate of 1% - stats definitely have a part to play in these sorts of cases - where malicious incidents occur in a situation like a hospital and have often been a way that the killer or predator is identified.

I believe she is guilty.

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 12/11/2024 22:29

Good luck @MistressoftheDarkSide! That does sound cryptic.

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MistressoftheDarkSide · 12/11/2024 22:07

Without wishing to sound cryptic, this case is informing my approach to something resonant and brewing that I am peripherally involved with. And on a personal level it's a Herculean task not to jump to conclusions when certain information seems hinky. Nature and the imagination abhor a void, so I'm working hard on cold, rational logic, while my instincts dance an undignified fandango. Sometimes you can't make this shit up.

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 12/11/2024 21:07

GossIsAGit · 12/11/2024 20:57

I suppose.
This is interesting from the Telegraph again

https://archive.is/HmHHb

I meant to say I suppose that’s understandable of Dr Hawdon to feel she hadn’t been given the full picture.

OP posts:
Original poster
GossIsAGit · 12/11/2024 20:57

I suppose.
This is interesting from the Telegraph again

https://archive.is/HmHHb

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Original poster
GossIsAGit · 12/11/2024 15:25

Thanks @MistressoftheDarkSide. It’s incredible how many things went wrong at every stage.

The latest episode of John Sweeney’s podcast has some interesting remarks by Steve Watts “[who] was, before he retired, the lead detective in England and Wales advising how police should investigate deaths in hospitals.”

“What I think has happened in this case is that at a very early stage, a decision has been made that the babies have been unknowingly killed and injured, and this particular individual, Lucy Letby, was responsible. And the evidence has been gathered in order to confirm the hypothesis without testing other hypotheses, for example, insanitary conditions.”

From Was There Ever A Crime? The Trials of Lucy Letby with John Sweeney: Episode 3: Enter Sherlock Holmes. Not., 11 Nov 2024
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/was-there-ever-a-crime-the-trials-of-lucy/id1616634411?i=1000676479331

Getting back to the Telegraph article you linked to, I keep wondering about the judge’s various decisions to exclude and not exclude evidence. There must be some good judges out there because one of them sent his criticisms of Evans to Justice Goss before the trial.
I wonder what conclusions Justice Thirlwall will come up with next year.

Jayaram is up tomorrow.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 12/11/2024 11:42

https://archive.ph/2Fyuw

Most recent Telegraph article.

The problem we have, and why it's important to hold the justice system to account, and to scrutinise it, is because it's starting to look as though even if Lucy Letby did do some terrible things (which I have grave doubts about), it seems as though extra charges were piled up on her, even without coherent evidence. That needs robust and impartial investigation.

PlumViper · 11/11/2024 18:46

ThatsNotMyTeen · 11/11/2024 11:26

Give it a rest and get a hobby honestly

its looking at the evidence and realising all the dots do not add up in this case and it has more holes than plant pot

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 11/11/2024 12:23

ThatsNotMyTeen · 11/11/2024 11:26

Give it a rest and get a hobby honestly

Thanks for your concern, but I enjoy posting here.

OP posts:
ThatsNotMyTeen · 11/11/2024 11:26

Give it a rest and get a hobby honestly

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 11/11/2024 10:36

I’ve seen a further suggestion on X that Cheshire police not only got door swipe data wrong but also phone records by failing to note they were in GMT and needed to be translated into British Summer Time.
If this is true then it destroys the discrepancy between Mother E seeing blood around Baby E’s mouth and Letby calling a registrar an hour later.
Sources: JabesAllowed and TimMJoslin

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Original poster
GossIsAGit · 06/11/2024 09:36

It’s been interesting how the political right have led the charge on this.
Where are today’s Paul Foot and Chris Mullin?

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 06/11/2024 09:08

https://archive.ph/53NWq

As it's behind a pay wall. Good summary of the concerns.

Original poster
GossIsAGit · 06/11/2024 07:41

Good article.

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TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 19/10/2024 09:03

I think the most interesting thing about the Spiked article (which is quite superficial and doesn’t say anything that hasn’t been said hundreds of times before- it’s already been discussed on here at least once) is that it’s in Spiked, which prides itself on being heterodox and bravely standing up against received opinion. If they consider it worth publishing an article arguing that the conviction is safe it must now be seen as a very mainstream view that the conviction is NOT safe.

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