Cheshire Police are an incompetent bunch of useless bastards

Amen to that.

Yes. It refers to
all four main prosecution witnesses [who gave evidence about the child]
so doesn't seem to have rested solely on Edwards. In addition, this relates to one case. How many babies was Letby convicted of killing again?

I'm always completely amazed how much faith some people have into he justice system. It's actually quite sweet. It's as if major miscarriage of justice have never happened. They've clearly never had the displeasure of knowing how completely disfunctional and downright corrupt it can be. Easy to waft through your whole life believe in it like a comfort blanket I suppose.

This has been covered in something read about the trial. Basically leading experts in their field just won't put themselves forward for the defence in cases like this because it's controversial. They really get nothing out of it career wise and risk a whole heap of unpleasantness that could possibly be career ending in some cases. It does seem like her defence were working blindfolded. For example they didn't know that the police had never consulted a proper statistician, which is what this article is about. It's only just come to light. They also didn't know the door fob data was presented incorrectly etc, and probably numerous other things that weren't presented to the jury.

I think the vituperation, the lack of interest in evidence and the creative piling on of further assumption onto what little evidence we have, that we see on these threads is actually quite helpful as it shows how irrational many people get when faced with cases like this and helps us understand how witch hunts and miscarriages of justice come about.

I hope the bitch rots in hell.

Even if the conspiracy theorists out there manage to get these convictions quashed, I will never believe that she was innocent.

Just because there could be question marks over how evidence was presented doesn’t mean that Lucy Letby isn’t a cold blooded murderer. She is 100% guilty IMO, and frankly the level of sympathy towards this woman on a parenting website where the parents of her victims may have wished to turn for support but probably wouldn’t ever feel they could now is disgusting.

She was tried and found guilty - save your sympathy for the children and their parents.

Some people just can't accept a woman can harm babies. Would love to know if there was this level of disturbance about the verdict if Letby had been a man, I suspect not

She doesn't accuse Letby of lacking empathy - just mentions it in a list of qualities some student nurses don't have. Her report was that she strongly felt Letby could meet the required standard with more work.

Even if she did - I'm sure most murderers lack empathy, but the reverse isn't true. There really is no solid evidence any murders occurred at all in this case.

The point is she picked up on her being "off", cold and lacking empathy and unsuited to the role. And obviously it turns out she was bang on. She's trained to know these things so I'd very much trust her opinion. Even the other assessor had reservations. Lacking empathy in the only suspect of murders is quite the red flag!

Didn't show good interpersonal skills does not mean homicidal nurse either.

If it did, half the interactions mumsnetters describe with medical professionals on this site would be murder stories.

Sure. Neither of them is saying she is a risk to children. Both are saying she needs to work on particular skills. She did.

You can look at every molehill in Letby's life and turn it into a mountain if you want to, but if Lightfoot thought Letby wasn't safe around children after qualifying, she should have said so then and she could certainly have said so today.

Not really - lots of the alleged crimes happened with other people in the room.

She was upfront about preferring to work with the more complex cases. That was her specialism.

She didn't come across as furious - just grumpy.

The postmortem gave a cause of death for that baby as heart failure diagnosed based on physical findings and possible to connect with prematurity and traumatic birth. It would have triggered a collapse 6-8 hours before his death. He showed clinical signs of deterioration and was too small to be cared for on that unit by their own rules.

This case really doesn't need to be a murder.

You left out-

Giving evidence at the Thirlwall Inquiry into events surrounding the neonatal nurse’s crimes, Ms Lightfoot said: “I found Lucy to be quite cold. I did not find a natural warmth exuding from her which I expect from a children’s nurse.

“I have to be sure that this person is ready and safe to practise and I wasn’t prepared to put my professional reputation and registration on the line at that point.”

no she's probably not going to outright say "this person isn't safe around children" she has to be diplomatic but it's strongly implied she wouldn't make a good nurse.

And from the next mentor-

“She didn’t show good inter-personal skills with children, parents, nurses or the wider team. I believed this to be Letby’s lack of confidence and experience as she was very young and an only child away from home.

@Oftenaddled she wasn't simply annoyed she was furious, because she's a narc. Yes I can buy if it happened once that it was an unlucky coincidence but it happened so many times when other staff left the room. It's also been said by other nurses that constantly requesting certain rooms and/or babies is very strange and unprofessional behaviour.

Lightfoot said nothing about her being unfit to work with children.

She said :

"At the moment Lucy requires much more support, prompting and supervision than I would expect at this stage to allow her to qualify as a competent practitioner".

"However I strongly feel if Lucy continues to take on board feedback, continues to work on her weaker areas and develop her practice accordingly then this is achievable in the future.”

I think the Sky News report leaves that out so gives a worse impression

www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/24654291.cold-lucy-letby-initially-failed-final-year-student-nurse-placement/

If Lightfoot felt that Letby posed any risk after improving and qualifying, she had five years to raise it and never did.

All of the nurses had to go into that room to get meds; all of them frequently covered for one another on breaks; all of them doubled up to give meds.

Being annoyed about work isn't proof of murder either.

Yep, some people can just get a sense about people and know they're lacking in empathy etc. and shouldn't be working with vulnerable people/children, and some can't (as evidenced by this thread) I'm sure she knew who she could manipulate and who she couldn't. It's devastating to think she could've been prevented from ever being a nurse in the first place 😢

Oh come ON. She wasn't supposed to be in there, she was PISSED she was being told no about something. Are you not capable of joining the dots? Is it all bad luck again 🙄What are the chances that the baby only collapses during the few mins the designated nurse is gone and LL goes in there (but she can't remember why) you really don't find this suspicious at all? It's pretty damning circumstantial evidence, especially when you put it together with all the rest.

She passed her placement second time and is alleged by some (far from all) of her colleagues to have been socially awkward. She was advised to work on her communication skills. Both Murphy and Lightfoot believed she could reach the required standard in time - Murphy saw it as a factor of youth and inexperience.

Lightfoot despite working on the unit in Chester with her 2015-16 raised none of these concerns then, presumably because Letby's student days were no longer relevant.

If you want to get rid of nurses with this profile, the NHS will be in worse trouble than ever.

You really have to meet a higher standard of proof for murder than "was in the room".

news.sky.com/story/cold-lucy-letby-failed-final-year-student-nurse-placement-inquiry-hears-13234225

Reading this made me shudder, she should never have been a nurse of any kind, especially working with babies.

@notanothernamechange24 baby C was the one who she wasn't supposed to be looking after but 6 mins after she was texting about not getting what she wanted (to be in room 1) she goes in room 1 anyway and the baby suddenly crashed? Hmm not sure I have any doubts over that baby sorry. Baby was stable and being looked after by a less qualified nurse, naturally LL hated that so when that nurse briefly left (which she wouldn't have done if any problems) LL goes in room and suddenly baby is at deaths door. Why are people ignoring this? She was there when he crashed for the final time. As soon as she got home she searched the parents of baby C as well.