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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I out of practice or was this a weird discussion with manager?

162 replies

pensandpapwrs · 11/10/2024 20:05

I’ve been back at work just under six months after Mat leave, my daughter is 18 months. I was told my work wasn’t perfect when I came back as I was missing small things (work in a professional role) but I was steadily improving as the months had gone on. I was asked how I felt about things etc. I was told of the direction of the company and that manager was looking forward to us all embarking on this next phase of growth together.

So that was all ok. So I thought. I was then told it would be a good idea to re address the balance of my home and work life as it’s probably too much tipped into the home life at the moment. I have no idea what that meant, I leave to do nursery pick up but I’ve been told (by this manager) that that is fine. I also am on target. I just felt it was a weird thing to say, like how is the balance wrong and how can I NOT collect my child or be there for the home stuff? I was also told I need to build on being more robust so they can send more work to me steadily. I had no idea I wasn’t robust?!

I came out of the meeting feeling totally mixed messages. Am I reading into this too much?

OP posts:
Newposter180 · 12/10/2024 08:59

Bestyearever2024 · 11/10/2024 20:34

I was also told I need to build on being more robust so they can send more work to me steadily. I had no idea I wasn’t robust?!

Again, what did they say when you asked what they meant by this?

I say this gently, but it wouldn't surprise me , ftom what you've said, if they're compiling a case for PIP/dismissal. Obviously not immediately, but they are documenting areas of failure for future use

If you find it difficult to think on your feet in meetings and therefore can't ask the appropriate questions, I'd take your union rep in with you

I agree with this. Ask for everything in writing because I think they’re going to try and “manage you out”.
The only thing I disagree with (and it happens on MN all the time) is the assumption that you’ll have a union. The vast majority of people don’t, it seems an odd thing to assume.

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:58

thesunisastar · 12/10/2024 08:55

Yeah I agree with the PPs that this is a classic combo of misogynistic bullshit and a company culture of keeping people on their toes. It is exceptionally poor management to give negative feedback that is unquantifiable and can't be properly substantiated with clear examples.

Ask yourself, would he have made these comments to a male colleague in the exact same circumstances? He probably would have given him a pat on the back for being both a good employee and a committed father.

As you've already noted, don't ever fall into the trap of chatting about this stuff again because he's clearly going to use it against you. Wanker.

@thesunisastar yeah I wish I hadn’t let the conversation flow into that territory. I know for a fact work has not been impacted by me having a child other than me having a stronger boundary about when I need to pause for the day (I.e. my child’s bedtime) and there’s nothing I can do about that.

OP posts:
ComingBackHome · 12/10/2024 08:56

I’d read that as ‘you’re not staying late after the official finishing time
like everyone else/those who REALLY want to progress’
So a hurdle to possible promotions etc…?

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:56

AustinFlowers · 12/10/2024 08:54

Fine for everyone else but not you. Why? Are you being singled out?

This is how it starts.

@AustinFlowers well when I asked if it was a problem they said no and that everyone else does it too. So I don’t think I had been singled out. Just strange to have the work life balance mentioned?

OP posts:
AustinFlowers · 12/10/2024 08:55

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:53

It’s just strange as I’ve been there several years though this new manager only been in the last three so I knew them only briefly before mat leave.

New broom

thesunisastar · 12/10/2024 08:55

Yeah I agree with the PPs that this is a classic combo of misogynistic bullshit and a company culture of keeping people on their toes. It is exceptionally poor management to give negative feedback that is unquantifiable and can't be properly substantiated with clear examples.

Ask yourself, would he have made these comments to a male colleague in the exact same circumstances? He probably would have given him a pat on the back for being both a good employee and a committed father.

As you've already noted, don't ever fall into the trap of chatting about this stuff again because he's clearly going to use it against you. Wanker.

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:55

AustinFlowers · 12/10/2024 08:52

A manager who makes unsupportive comments without giving examples or discussing how you can improve? Hmm.... where is this going? I wonder....

From now on, as far as they are concerned you will be whiter than white. Cover your back. Act professional at all times. Act confident. Don't discuss concerns or difficulties about the baby or work/life balance.

Assume that they are planning to manage you out because this is how it starts. You need to remember you are doing a good job. It's them.

Oh, and start looking for a new job.

@AustinFlowers i did find it odd when I asked for an example of what I could have done better when I first returned and they simply said I had spelled a name wrong. I get that’s not ideal but hardly in professional negligence territory is it. And there was nothing else said, no examples given even though I asked. They just said the trajectory was great and going the right way and be ready to be thrown more more.

OP posts:
AustinFlowers · 12/10/2024 08:54

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:45

Sorry, to clarify, I leave at 5 to collect my child, most people in the team do this (well, the women!). It’s not usual and some leave even earlier if their child is in school.

This is why I am confused about the home work balance comment. Also have no idea what the robust comment meant other than perhaps I do check things too much, so maybe that explains that one

Fine for everyone else but not you. Why? Are you being singled out?

This is how it starts.

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:53

It’s just strange as I’ve been there several years though this new manager only been in the last three so I knew them only briefly before mat leave.

OP posts:
AustinFlowers · 12/10/2024 08:52

A manager who makes unsupportive comments without giving examples or discussing how you can improve? Hmm.... where is this going? I wonder....

From now on, as far as they are concerned you will be whiter than white. Cover your back. Act professional at all times. Act confident. Don't discuss concerns or difficulties about the baby or work/life balance.

Assume that they are planning to manage you out because this is how it starts. You need to remember you are doing a good job. It's them.

Oh, and start looking for a new job.

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:45

Sorry, to clarify, I leave at 5 to collect my child, most people in the team do this (well, the women!). It’s not usual and some leave even earlier if their child is in school.

This is why I am confused about the home work balance comment. Also have no idea what the robust comment meant other than perhaps I do check things too much, so maybe that explains that one

OP posts:
Bthebestucanb · 12/10/2024 08:45

It sounds like this is the type of company who likes to keep everyone on their toes by means of pointless criticism. I would ignore it & get on with my work as usual.

Fastback · 12/10/2024 08:43

Sounds like they’re holding on to the age old misogyny bullshit that women who have children simply aren’t as good, and are slowly engineering you out, especially as they’ve told uou about this “next phase of growth”. They’re possibly paving the way to put you on a performance plan, come to the conclusion you’re underperforming and let you go.

Ask for it all in writing as you found it very vague and keep records of everything here on in.

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 08:40

Pusheen467 · 12/10/2024 07:57

he said I had spelled a name wrong in an email. That was all he said?

If you do decide to send a follow up email make sure you don't use question marks in this way as it makes you seem not confident. I'm not criticising you, I just don't want him to have more ammunition against you.

@Pusheen467 thanks, I wouldn’t do that in any correspondence. It was more to convey a certain tone here when typing fast!

OP posts:
Speakeasy22 · 12/10/2024 08:39

I don't understand if you are leaving work to collect from nursery during your working hours and then catching up on the missed work later at home (while looking after your child) or leaving because it is the end of your working day. If it's the former then, yes, you need to have that arrangement formalised by the manager. Most managers do not want their employees to be working from home with a young child.

andthat · 12/10/2024 08:32

pensandpapwrs · 11/10/2024 21:51

I literally never talk about DD unless asked. I never disrupt a meeting for a pick up at nursery, I would just pay the fine for late collection, which I have done on the two occasions it happened.

I have never inconvenienced anyone through childcare stuff or home life. At all.

The only thing I can think is perhaps I seem rushed a lot of the time. And I do often double check things with people which could suggest I am not 100% confident and therefore not robust?

the person saying they are looking to get rid of me… I don’t think so as part of the meeting was how excited my manager was to build the team even further with me and they knew I was highly capable and still working my way up on the return from mat leave… so I don’t think that sounds like they are teeing up anything? Also no notes were made at the time of the meeting. Perhaps they were afterwards but it was a general review meeting everyone has, not just scheduled for me.

Hmm OP, yes of course more clarification needed BUT it stood out to me your comment about ‘working your way up’ after mat leave.

You said you’ve been back for six months.. that seems a long time to be working your way back up to a job you left behind in a company you’re already familiar with.

so… either your boss’ expectations are totally out of kilter since you became a mum (were you killing your self with long hours previously?) or despite being on target, you’re not delivering to your usual standard.

What is the culture of the company like towards parents? Is it supportive? It sounds as if you are bending yourself over backwards to pretend your child doesn’t exist in order to convince them that nothing has changed. But they di exist and things have changed. Maybe it’s time to find a job with a family friendly culture, a place where talking about your family is seen as, well, normal!

I say that as someone working in a highly senior professional role who is also a mum… I returned to work in a similar vein but now work for a company that embraces diversity and all that entails.. including being a parent.

Animatic · 12/10/2024 08:24

This can be a start of performance improvement plan conversation. I would document everything in writing and factually address concerns. Especially put factual quotes around "tipped balance" , these can be invaluable if it gets to settlement conversation.

NewFriendlyLadybird · 12/10/2024 08:22

pensandpapwrs · 11/10/2024 21:54

I am worried now though if posters think they’re trying to get rid of me!

I think it’s straightforward prejudice against mothers or a way of ensuring you will work your ass off due to insecurity.

Did you notice whether the next phase of growth for the company comes with additional investment and recruitment? If not, they’re gearing up for making you all do 50% more work for the same pay. You’re a problem because you’ve got a right to flexible work and so they want to make you worry about your performance, meaning you’ll work harder and not complain.

Baddaybigcloud · 12/10/2024 08:18

Let me guess you work in a team of men who have wives that do all the pick ups and childcare ???

Aysegull · 12/10/2024 08:15

Do you work from home a lot?

Poppalina37 · 12/10/2024 08:14

Sounds like a throw away comment that was said in the moment.... they do have to follow proper procedures if there is an issue..

I've got a 11 month old daughter and ran into a bit of trouble during my pregnancy.

pregnantthenscrewed.com/advice-services/

This charity was amazing x it might be worth you having an informal chat with them as they can help you with anything that you may not foresee x

I do think this is somewhat of a societal problem... we have to work like we are not mothers.... but raise our children like we don't work.... the role of the mother has dramatically changed now.... and not all employers have progressed with modern living xx

BinsinBonson · 12/10/2024 08:09

Notwhatuwanttohear · 11/10/2024 23:23

It's probably because you don't spend every waking hour engrossed in work and actually take the time to be a mum.

Exactly how I interpret it. Op has returned to this employer - she’s not a new starter, so I find it hard to imagine her understanding of her performance is so out of whack with the reality.

If I were the op, I’d stop with the analysis of exactly where I was going wrong and look for somewhere that appreciated me. This place sounds awful.

eurochick · 12/10/2024 08:07

"So I thought. I was then told it would be a good idea to re address the balance of my home and work life as it’s probably too much tipped into the home life at the moment. I have no idea what that meant, I leave to do nursery pick up but I’ve been told (by this manager) that that is fine. I also am on target. I just felt it was a weird thing to say, like how is the balance wrong and how can I NOT collect my child or be there for the home stuff? I was also told I need to build on being more robust so they can send more work to me steadily. I had no idea I wasn’t robust?!"

Some of what you refer to here is what I meant by gaslighting. They've said leaving to do nursery pick up is fine but are now saying you have the balance wrong. They've said you need to be more robust when you weren't aware that you were not robust. It's making you doubt yourself and messing with your mind.

Aussieland · 12/10/2024 08:07

pensandpapwrs · 12/10/2024 07:10

@RoseMarigoldViolet yes that came up about ‘finding good childcare.’

I have good childcare. It covers all my hours of work.

But it doesn’t sound like it does if you have to leave during the work day to collect your child? Maybe I am misunderstanding

Ponoka7 · 12/10/2024 08:04

"I think I will actually just mention in passing that I’ve managed to sort extended childcare to give extra availability to work without interruption".
Don't do that, outside of meetings, don't 'casually' talk about your childcare. You'll be more or less saying that your work has been affected by your home life, reiterating his point. "Is something bad happening here?" was a strange thing for you to reply. Ask what you need to know eg What does robust look like? As said, keep notes and diaries. Perhaps you are giving too much away when chatting. For a while, chat less and go ultra professional.

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