Please help me figure out how to fix my kids ' childhood

Really think bedtime is too late and they are over tired so the daytime tasks seem more difficult as they are tired and irritable.

My DD age 3 has started preschool for full days now and is in bed by 6.30pm latest. We do have an early start though and she needs to up awake or woken up by 6.30am.

Also agree with comments about the dinner time and length and possible ND. I would try to get OT or dietician advice around this - a protein smoothie, ensure type drinks, high calorie but healthy snacks style food may be better. It will only cause anxiety and further food issues for there to be such a prolonged time spent on eating and dinner.

A few other things to try:
She will be slow if she’s not eating much, tired and getting a lot of exercise. It may be worth flipping mealtimes on their head a bit and aim for a filling, protein rich breakfast. She’ll have more energy for eating first thing in the morning. If sausages are a safe food you could cook a pack at a time and have them in the fridge - microwave in the morning, put in a sandwich. You could also try some recipes for some breakfast wraps or breakfast pitta pockets with sausages, maybe egg too if she’ll eat those. You can cling film these, microwave from frozen in the morning and she can eat that first thing or while she’s in the car. Energy balls may be a good snack - high fat, sweet, small, quick, easy to eat.

I’m assuming you won’t like the idea of this but it may be worth trialling after school club/late care especially if this would help you with work. I’m just thinking this may be good because they usually serve tea and do homework there. So while she would have less time at home in the evening, it would all essentially be downtime as these things wouldn’t need doing. If dinner is taking over an hour at home anyway then you aren’t losing time - she could stay an extra hour then come home and done. You could always then do a snack/supper close to bedtime but it takes pressure off you in terms of having to cook a meal knowing she probably won’t eat it, no dinner battle. If your son has a substantial snack at nursery anyway then this would fix the issue - just serve a snack/picky bits to both. If this also meant you wouldn’t have to work after you’ve put them to bed you’d regain some down time for yourself. If you know you need to get them to sleep so you can crack on with work this is probably stressing you out and may be affecting how you act at bedtime - children can be very sensitive to our emotions.

If you do this it will also help you to break the current associations around mealtimes and screen time etc. At weekends you can have a family dinner, no screens, just chat and have fun - start dinner early at the weekend too so there isn’t a rush. I would try reintroducing the time limit for dinner without the screen. You don’t need to make her aware of it - after it goes off you can just say okay, we’re finished at the table now, and let her bring her plate to pick at while she crafts/reads etc. If she was having a good hot breakfast then there would be less pressure on you all to ram the calories in at dinner time.

FIL and cooking dinner for the kids - could you put him in charge of making the kids lunches for school for the next day? (With guidance on what DD will eat of course). He feels useful, gets another job off your hands.

I have a hanging clothes organiser for DD that has a big and small clear pocket for each day of the week labelled. It’s hung on the back of her door - when I put laundry away I just fill each pocket as I’m putting away. Buy enough uniform that you have one change for every school day. Then you don’t have to lay out clothes - pants/tights/vest go in the small pocket, full clean set of uniform in the other pocket. If things come home clean, just fold them and put them in the next empty pocket. Then she wakes up, gets clothes out of the pocket for that day, gets dressed. Cuts faffing and saves laying clothes out every night. Also means you can visually see if you need to put a wash on!

Nothing you can do about the long school day but focus on quality time not quantity of time. Is moving closer to school an option? This would cut down on the commute. Buy an Alexa and set a daily reminder for the same time each day, 15 minutes before you need to leave “leave for school”. When that goes off - coats on, shoes on, everyone gets in the car. This builds in buffer time. Set another alarm for 5 minutes before you need to go just in case you aren’t out by then. This will cue the kids and you. If you get to school 15 minutes early then great! Have the iPad in the car, she can do some homework then too/or you can do some timetable practice/she could eat a snack.

When you come in from school, bring everything in from the car straight away. Make two trips if you have to. Come inside, stand on the doormat, take your shoes off, kids do the same. Shoes go straight to wherever they live, same for coats etc. Check the bags for paperwork/dirty clothes/whatever else. Then if nothing needs to go back in the bag/its packed for the next day, put it straight back in the car ready for the morning.

My two struggle with executive function for various reasons.

The biggest difference to our mornings was when I switched the routine to work from the bedrooms to the front door to reduce children drifting off for things like a 10 minute side-quest for socks that merely results in a child lying on their bed somewhere on another planet in a brain far far away.

Mine are pretty useless for 2 hours after school, especially my autistic child. They're only fit for eating, drinking and zoning out. Creativity and energy kick in later. They do not believe in early bedtimes, and after a childhood of irrelevantly early bedtimes that had no relevance to when my brain shutdown for the night, I've timed their bedtime around when their brain is likely to shut down rather than a pointless battle at an arbitary time.

I've had to be more involved in prompting or doing for them than usual. My 13 yo still needs hands on help for things like combing hair.

Bedtime earlier so you aren’t fighting to get her out of bed every day. Current bedtime is far too late

OP I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on the thread but while I agree with others raising ADHD as a possibility, I think there is some things around parenting styles that may be helpful to think about.

Children should have choice and be able to express themselves but a large part of feeling safe, especially at the young ages of your two is knowing that the adults around them love then and are in charge. Although children will often battle to be in control, they ultimately want to feel secure that you are in control and have their best interests at heart. Without quoting specifics of what you've written I get the feeling that you defer authority to your children and especially to your DD. They are making decisions about timings, going to bed tv at dinner etc. But they do not have the maturity to make good decisions about those things, and need the security of you setting boundaries.

What probably doesn't help is that I'm guessing you may be feeling guilty e.g. about your working hours, seeing DD underweight, their happiness and opportunities etc. and that combined with adhd means you feel unable or unwilling to be firm and ride out the behaviour consequences. But honestly I do think you have it in you, and as someone who has a child with very significant issues including around control, I know it's hard but being very consistent pays off.

I haven't read every reply but the things that strike me are the difficulty getting up in the morning, late dinner, late to bed.

I'd say try getting up earlier - say 6:30am, that gives an extra 30mins for breakfast, less rushing and hopefully out the door on time. Also will hopefully count towards DD being more tired/ready for bed later on.

Dinner needs to be earlier, say 5/5:30pm and into bed by 7:30/8 latest.

It does sound like the doctors need to help, my child has sleep issues but the GP was rubbish. Long story short we eventually got referred after I stood in the GP office and cried my eyes out through utter exhaustion and desperation - paediatrician couldn't believe it had taken so long to get referred - meds given and now we have a happier house.
Keep insisting the docs refer your daughter for tests, also agree with another poster it sounds like she may have some kind of neurodivergent issue?

OP I am another ND mum with ND kids and I totally recognise all you have written. I know you want to talk strategies rather than diagnosis for your daughter, the good news is you don't have to have a diagnosis to use parenting strategies that work for neurodiversity, you can try stuff and see what works for you 😉
Some things I find really helpful, that I haven't seen mentioned in your posts...

1. Visual schedules. My children each have two lists on the lounge room wall - one for before school and one for after. Words and images for each task. When they were younger they used to be laminated so they could tick off each task with a whiteboard marker. Now they are on screens more they like to 'click' each 'button' by tapping it with their fingers. This reduces my mental load as I don't have to remember where 4 people are up to, and also reduces the verbal reminders/nagging/demands for my kids. if I see someone distracted I just ask 'where are you up to on your list' 'what's your next job?'.
2. Body doubling. If someone is really stuck and can't move forward, we work through our tasks together. Time to brush teeth? We both go in the bathroom and brush teeth side by side. Or getting changed - we make it a game and by calling out what we're up to. 'I'm on socks now!' 'Haha, I already have socks on!'.
3. Games. Be playful. Your mornings sound quite stressful and being a bit silly (while still getting the job done) can help you reconnect and reduce everyone's stress. It is VERY hard to do higher order thinking/exercise function when you are in fight/flight/freeze. This goes for you and your daughter. What book is she reading? Pretend to be a character. 'Nearly time for hogwarts, Harry - let's get your robes on!'. Or do silly walks. Knight her with your spoon and send her on an epic quest to get her socks. Whatever helps us keep moving forward 😆 With my kids I find competition type games DON'T work - eg racing to get a task done - they add too much stress/pressure and it becomes them vs me when we need to be a team.
4. Be realistic. For her and for you. What IS possible. What do you have the capacity for (remember this is very different to what you are CAPABLE of - you are probably capable of many things but that doesn't mean you have capacity for all of them). What are the priorities. It sounds like her childhood looks a little different from yours and there's some things you need to process there. What does HER ideal afternoon look like? Remember capacity can change from day to day, and throughout the day... if she's had teachers wanting her to 'focus' and 'pick up the pace' all day, and that's not how her brain is wired, off course she is going to struggle with simple tasks when she first gets home. Let her read! That might be the 'reset' time she needs.
5. Model good self-management. This is such a bonus of kids having ND parents- we can show them, day by day, the tools and strategies WE use to work with our beautiful unique brains. 'Oops I keep getting distracted, I am going to set myself a ten minute timer to really focus and then give myself a brain break'. 'Wow, I have a lot to do today, I am feeling kinda overwhelmed. I need to make a list and just pick 2 things I really want to get done'. 'Ooh yeah, I finished my assignment, oh it feels SO GOOD to be done!'
6. Finally - be curious!! Do lots of reading about how kids brains work, and how ADHD brains work a little differently. Once you're aware of things like demand avoidance, dopamine seeking, etc, you will start to see how that plays out in you & your kids. Some of the parenting that works for others may not work for you. Eg the dance party before bed that others keep saying is 'bonkers'... we almost always have wrestling matches right before bed. It's full-on, full-body, high energy play and we NEED that to help us regulate. Don't judge yourself harshly, or your daughter, or compare yourself to others. Experiment and find what works for your family.

I’ve only read up your posts OP so don’t know if anyone else has suggested this but if the daily homework is on a tablet, could that not be something that your DD does while eating in an evening instead of watching videos, still a slight distraction from eating and you will probably need to remind her to chew (we have this with my DD who just eats slowly although less slowly) but it could possibly get the homework done and not extra screen time

OP I have commented twice already but just wanted to say that I really sympathise with you. Dealing with neurodiversity (both hours and potentially your children’s is tough. It is not something you plan and prepare for and it leaves you struggling to understand why life is more difficult than it should be. I have an autistic child and I’m slowly discovering that other family members are also neurodiverse or at least have a lot of traits. Life is difficult, but the single most useful thing to do is to get your child assessed and get an understanding of what you are dealing with. You need to read and learn as much as possible about how her brain works (and yours too) and you will find better strategies to deal with daily life. Strategies that work for neurotypical people are often not the right ones that will work in your family and that’s ok. You will find your way.

The other thing I wanted to comment on is the idea you are holding on to that your daughter is having a crappy childhood. You did not say it, but you are thinking it. I also grew up in a country where you start school at the age of seven and you are home for lunch leaving you the whole day to play and do things. I agree with you that the school day here is long and that kids start school way too early and are pushed to do things way too soon. However you might want to let go of comparing your childhood to your kids’. That was another time, another life, another culture. You should focus on the present and try and do the best for them with what you have. The feelings of guilt and regret are not your friend. The kids don’t know any different so it’s not an issue for them, it’s an issue for you and frankly you can’t do much about it. Focus on the present, learn as much as you can about your daughter’s beautiful brain and the amazing things it can do and do your best to support her with her difficulties. You are doing great already. I hope you are kind to yourself.

OP, I'd bet my bottom dollar your DD has ADHD. 100% recognise all of that!

You sound a bit frantic in your own head, thinking about what a mess it all is and wishing there were more hours in the day. With absolute kindness, it may be that even if you didn't work and school finished at 1pm you'd still feel rushed and frazzled, because the ADHD mind is like that.

Can you focus on what you're doing well - she's eating better. She has interests and hobbies and friends and it sounds like she can entertain herself. You've found a good school. Your little one seems in a manageable routine, that's all good stuff! I would try and let some of your expectations go. Realistically, will rigid to do lists and timers work for anyone in your household? Or is it better to just drop some of the expectations around more time for x,y, and z if only you could be better at a,b, and c?

Especially with a child yiu are struggling to get calories into.

Demand avoidance is often an element of adhd.

Also, dancing before bed is bonkers.

Everything you've included about your daughter points to adhd - dreaminess, ARFID, difficulty falling asleep, social difficulty, talking nonstop, inability to focus on the goal of getting out the door/ deal with transitions - points to adhd.

Only you know why you are resistant to the idea that this might be the issue.

Absolutely this.
Tired and hungry.
Children don't recognise that they are tired in the same way as adults. Your DD isn't getting enough sleep and until you sort the morning out that means going to bed much earlier.
Dancing before bed is the absolute opposite of a good bedtime routine. Dance while you get tea ready then slow wind down from there.

Move closer to school. Bed time earlier.

The OP has ADHD, ADHD is genetic so DD may have inherited it, and ADHD impacts sleep.

You can't fix the sleep in an ADHD kid with addressing the ADHD.

Drop the instrument.

Drop the swimming.

Let DD read and stop cramming social stuff into the weekends.

Stop cramming trips, outings, and activities into the weekends.

Pack bags for school the night before. Do not do this in the morning.

Get DD assessed for adhd.

It does sound like your daughter's issues are the root of all this. When my DC were that age they did more after-school activities and three days a week were at after-school club too but we still had a reasonable amount of time. I'm not an organised person but it sounds like the mealtimes and everyday tasks are very slow for her. 40.minutes should also be plenty of time to get ready for school and eat some breakfast. I do think it's worth speaking to a health professional about the eating and struggling to wake up. I have a child with autism and another with OCD and I do recognise some things you say but equally there are other things it could be.

Completely agree with this. I dont know why people are jumping STRAIGHT to neurodiversity when being tired all the time absolutely impacts executive functioning, eating etc.
She goes to bed too late and it sounds like shes chronically overtired and too tired to eat at tea time. Children this age are best being fed no later than 5.30 then winding down for bed. Not dancing 🙄
If she was less tired she'd be better able to focus in the mornings. She may also lack attention /focus because she's eating poorly and not getting the nutrients she needs.
Id be focusing on sleep before anything else, its SO important for children and a lot of people underestimate the impact lack of sleep has on executive functioning, attention, focus and mood.

If you can, I strongly recommend Tanya Wright, she is fabulous, lovely and very knowledgeable. She does a couple of private clinics in Buckinghamshire, an NHS clinic at St Mary's in London and also online appointments

A lot of this is down to your DD's next-level daydreaming and dietary issues, which need to be addressed as a priority. But some ideas for the short term...

I don't know if this is feasible for you, but my first thought is to let your DS sleep in and stand over your DD the entire time to make sure she gets ready first. Once she's at the table with breakfast, you can then move onto your DS, ideally with your DH sitting with your DD to keep the forward momentum going on her eating, or you just check in on her frequently. Then neither of the kids has as much time to faff.

Agree with others about sorting things out the night before where possible.

Shoes should just come off as soon as you're over the threshold or, in my opinion, there's not much point having a shoes off rule at all. Could you keep a bench/chair in the porch or hallway so she has to do this before anything else?

By eight, I doubt she's getting her hands that dirty during the school day. Can she not just wash them the next time she goes to the loo or at the kitchen sink before dinner? Especially if you move dinner to an earlier time? If you don't feel this is a compromise you can make, could you just hand your daughter a wet wipe in the car to clean her hands after school, rather than her procrastinating over it at home? On bath days, could you forget handwashing altogether and just run her a bath soon after she gets in?

You say she wants to learn the instrument but doesn't practice. I was similar growing up, but at the end of the day if she's not willing to practice she clearly doesn't want it that badly. Maybe have that conversation with her: either she wants to do it and agrees to practice, and block in time for that, or she doesn't want to and gives it up.

It's not unusual for kids to want some decompression time after a long day. Maybe let them free play first, then get them to sit at the table 20-30 minutes before tea so your DD can do her homework with you/DH in the same room while food is being cooked. If no homework, the kids can do crafts instead or help you to cook. That carves out time to chat as a family and do creative things/homework.

Apologies in advance if any of this is not possible and you have covered it in a previous post, I haven't read every post.

I only gave myself permission to do this kind of thing after ds got his asd diagnosis end of primary. Then I went on some specific autism/adhd parenting sessions, and they were sooo helpful in just reassuring about stuff like them genuinely just not having capacity for stuff, and about spiky development - that they can be years behind in maturity in some areas. It will come but can be on a different timescale to peers.

(For example, I still bathe and wash my 13yo's hair, same with a lot of other parents of nd kids I know, but I'm sure I won't still be doing that when he's 15 or 18!)

I'm pretty convinced I have ADHD too, and my own capacity to deal with organising my children, or with stress and tension or time pressure, is pretty low. Be kind to yourself x

Re tiredness, if your DD has a very restrictive diet - you mention she's a fussy eater - and picks at her food/only eats small amounts I would be worried that she is not getting enough iron and is anaemic, which does cause extreme tiredness.

Yeah my ds (with adhd) is the same.

At 13 I still frequently have to accompany him to make sure anything happens. Especially if he's tired or anxious.

I find I can sometimes get him to do things by physically leading/prompting him... He's very very chatty, so if I want him to go up and get ready for bed, for example, I could walk up the stairs and beckon him to follow me while he is still talking. Then hand him his pjs and he automatically puts them on while still talking. And then hand him his toothbrush... Bit time consuming, but less stressful than running up and down going "argh, why haven't you done xyz yet?!".

With your DD I would probably tell her to sit on the bottom step when we got in from school, and then hand her some hand sanitizer to rub on while I took her shoes off. Just to get it out the way and move on with life! It might then become a habit that she does herself.