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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

237 replies

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:21

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 10/10/2024 09:44

CautiousLurker · 10/10/2024 09:20

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times…

There’s the business justification for declining your request right there - the business is suffering because of your absences every Friday. It may not seem important to you, but the business feels that the way it is perceived by clients when ‘output is delayed’ is an issue. As a fellow employee, it would also seriously piss me off to be continually having to pick up half finished jobs from a colleague who choses to take a day off each week - it’s never just ‘finishing’ them, is it? It requires forensically back tracking through your work to see what you have done and what still needs to be done - it’s a huge wast of a person’s time and impact their efficiency. As fellow parents I am sure they were amenable to this as a short-term/temporary arrangement while you find your feet as a new parent, but permanently they clearly shouldn’t have to. A FT hybrid/WFT arrangement would probably have been considered, though.

What I read here is a person unable to see their impact upon their colleagues or the business. Not exactly a team player, are you?

Actually, the OP can see the impact on others as she has set it out very clearly in her post. She has just decided that it isn't important enough, in her opinion, to get in the way of the working pattern that she wants.

itwasnevermine · 10/10/2024 09:41

TerfTalking · 10/10/2024 09:38

Haven’t read all the replies so apologies if duplicated but you are also asking for the “best” day of the week off, so you’re handing over every Thursday and also “taking” all the Fridays off on leave so if someone else wants a Friday they are double short.

you may find your manager ia more amenable if you asked for a mid week day off.

This is another factor. Nobody else can take a long weekend because OP has taken Fridays, leaving them all stressed, and then they have to be in on a Monday to hand over to OP/finish the task themselves. It's extremely selfish.

yellowpuffin · 10/10/2024 09:39

Sorry OP but on the basis of the information you've provided, as your manager I would definitely deny it as there is a clear impact to the business and your colleagues and clients. I manage a large team, with a similar time sensitive workload and part time / flexible working doesn't work for our team unfortunately. This won't change after the new labour laws come in.

TerfTalking · 10/10/2024 09:38

Haven’t read all the replies so apologies if duplicated but you are also asking for the “best” day of the week off, so you’re handing over every Thursday and also “taking” all the Fridays off on leave so if someone else wants a Friday they are double short.

you may find your manager ia more amenable if you asked for a mid week day off.

PeachBlossom1234 · 10/10/2024 09:38

I went back to work after mat leave 4 days per week, and very quickly realised that I was still doing the same volume of work for less pay. I moved roles about a year later and went back 5 days....if I'm working myself silly then I want to be paid for it! If the work is there for full time, I doubt you'd feel the benefit of reduced hours to be honest.

Hayley1256 · 10/10/2024 09:35

Your employers reason is perfectly reasonable. You don't have a legal right to reduce your hours, your legal right is to ask if you can and for them to consider it.f

sangriaandsunshine · 10/10/2024 09:34

When I first went part time, I realised having Fridays off wouldn't work for the reasons others have said - if you are supporting a 7 day a week customer, there is a huge gap in you being able to respond to them.
For the past 15 years, I have always had a Weds or Thurs off. Not only does it work well from a work perspective but I found it much better from a life perspective too. The DC were only ever in nursery for two days before we could have a more chilled day doing whatever we wanted; it gave me a chance to catch up on the washing and go to the supermarket so there wasn't as much to do as the weekends. Also, when sickness bugs were going around, it massively reduced the number of times the 48 hour rule affect two nursery days.

NoahsTortoise · 10/10/2024 09:33

Unfortunately OP I think they could deny you on the basis of what you've said as it's exactly what happened to me when I requested a day off a week (albeit compressed hours for me). Impact on other colleagues and impact on customer delivery are 2 of the categories they can use to turn requests down.

I appealed and they subsequently allowed a half-day off midweek, rather than the Friday I had requested (because it's my quietest day, but they said it wasn't).

I hope you get your request 🙏

Teddyjumper · 10/10/2024 09:33

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:31

Hmmmm okay, thanks for the replies. I was under the impression that the business reason had to be really strong. A one day delay on the tasks I pick up isn’t the end of the world. It wouldn’t be the same client each time and most are understanding. Delays happen for other reasons too - sickness, too much work at once, it’s not a new thing…

This is saying that you think it's reasonable to reduce the level of service your customers are generally used to. Yes, delays happen sometimes, but your changed hours seem likely to mean that they become more common. I think that's a pretty strong business reason.

itwasnevermine · 10/10/2024 09:33

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I think that poster has bought the telegraph scare tactics of "Labour are going to make things impossible for businesses!!"

People will have the right to request flexi working, the business can say no for business reasons. This would be a solid business reason

Mintearo7 · 10/10/2024 09:32

Agree with Mondays or Wednesdays. Whilst it’s nice to think there might be more mum coffees/toddler clubs on a Friday, managing work here is the priority. Also, is there someone else more junior you can suggest
to train up so they can at least move a few elements on whilst you’re off? It’s actually good for my junior team to not have me there one day, it’s a day with increased responsibility without someone there watching the whole time. I am always contactable on my Monday off though and I’m 100% accountable for the work they do - sometimes I have to log on on a Sunday or Monday evening to move things along.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 10/10/2024 09:31

ceeveebee · 10/10/2024 08:58

The law currently allows employers to refuse for a valid business reason (doesn’t have to be a very strong reasons) without giving any evidence. The new law is expected to only allow refusal where is the arrangements are unfeasible and the burden of proof will be on the employee to prove why this is not feasible. It will be a pretty major change to employee rights and all large companies are busy preparing and worrying about this believe me!!

As an employer, we haven't been worried about this, as we know that we already do everything we possibly can to accommodate flexible working requests. We never refuse them without very good reasons for doing so, and we always provide a clear explanation to staff if we have to say no. So not convinced that much is going to change for us.

Are you suggesting that, in this case, the regular delaying of time sensitive work for clients and the increased workload for colleagues, as evidenced during what has effectively been a trial period for the OP's desired working pattern, would not be sufficient under the new legislation to allow the employer to decline the request?

Will employers just be expected to suck up any negative impacts under the new legislation? Where do you think the line be drawn between what is merely damaging to the employer and what is actually deemed to be "unfeasible"?

Anxioustealady · 10/10/2024 09:28

Sorry if someone's already said this, but could you do job sharing? Maybe you could do Monday to Wednesday and another colleague Wednesday to Friday (0.6 or more if you did long days, 1 day overlap to catch up)? So if a job came in Wednesday/Thursday its their responsibility, Friday/Monday it's yours. Tuesday shared.

Cobblersorchard · 10/10/2024 09:27

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Unexpectedlysinglemum · 10/10/2024 09:27

If they turn it down think you might need to request another flexible working pattern eg compressed hours so that you still work the same hours but get a day off. So if you work an hour longer on Monday- Thursday would that give you enough time to finish anything urgent? Or could you have Wednesday as your day off? Or two half days?

DoreenonTill8 · 10/10/2024 09:25

Coolblur · 10/10/2024 09:18

You have a legal right to request flexible working. Your employer can refuse if it adversely affects the business' needs. They are already telling you it does so they have grounds and more than enough evidence to refuse. While that may be disappointing, your choice is stay there on your pre-baby working hours, look for a new job that better fits your life, or if the issue is childcare, perhaps your partner could request flexible working instead.

This!! I think people are misinterpreting the new laws as 'ah ha!! Now you HAVE to give me what I want!'.

DeireadhFomhair · 10/10/2024 09:25

NameChangedOct · 10/10/2024 08:47

Oh I was hoping for a Friday for DS’s routine, but thinking about it different day - monday or Wednesday might work better for them, as I could finish things in the same week. I’ll chat to them.

I used to take Wednesdays, and it was a great day actually. Only ever 2 days in a row in work, able to catch up on work over the course of the week. Plus it's less busy at shops etc... so that was always good 😁

Bringautumnnights · 10/10/2024 09:24

How about having 2 half days? That way you're still working 5 days, still getting time with your DC?

Or look for a new job?

itwasnevermine · 10/10/2024 09:23

CautiousLurker · 10/10/2024 09:20

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times…

There’s the business justification for declining your request right there - the business is suffering because of your absences every Friday. It may not seem important to you, but the business feels that the way it is perceived by clients when ‘output is delayed’ is an issue. As a fellow employee, it would also seriously piss me off to be continually having to pick up half finished jobs from a colleague who choses to take a day off each week - it’s never just ‘finishing’ them, is it? It requires forensically back tracking through your work to see what you have done and what still needs to be done - it’s a huge wast of a person’s time and impact their efficiency. As fellow parents I am sure they were amenable to this as a short-term/temporary arrangement while you find your feet as a new parent, but permanently they clearly shouldn’t have to. A FT hybrid/WFT arrangement would probably have been considered, though.

What I read here is a person unable to see their impact upon their colleagues or the business. Not exactly a team player, are you?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Plus it's usually just easier to start it over again because your work styles are different, so then it's less billable time and it means the company is paying two members of staff and only being able to charge of one staff member's work.

toomuchfaff · 10/10/2024 09:21

Is the Friday the major issue?

One colleague I used to work with used to work 4 days but her day was Wednesday, that way she was away from little on only 2 days at a time.

If the Friday is a big issue due to weekend as well, would Wednesday work better therefore increasing chances of 4 days a week

CautiousLurker · 10/10/2024 09:20

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times…

There’s the business justification for declining your request right there - the business is suffering because of your absences every Friday. It may not seem important to you, but the business feels that the way it is perceived by clients when ‘output is delayed’ is an issue. As a fellow employee, it would also seriously piss me off to be continually having to pick up half finished jobs from a colleague who choses to take a day off each week - it’s never just ‘finishing’ them, is it? It requires forensically back tracking through your work to see what you have done and what still needs to be done - it’s a huge wast of a person’s time and impact their efficiency. As fellow parents I am sure they were amenable to this as a short-term/temporary arrangement while you find your feet as a new parent, but permanently they clearly shouldn’t have to. A FT hybrid/WFT arrangement would probably have been considered, though.

What I read here is a person unable to see their impact upon their colleagues or the business. Not exactly a team player, are you?

itwasnevermine · 10/10/2024 09:19

Coolblur · 10/10/2024 09:18

You have a legal right to request flexible working. Your employer can refuse if it adversely affects the business' needs. They are already telling you it does so they have grounds and more than enough evidence to refuse. While that may be disappointing, your choice is stay there on your pre-baby working hours, look for a new job that better fits your life, or if the issue is childcare, perhaps your partner could request flexible working instead.

OP hasn't mentioned childcare as an issue. Just wanting a day off in the week

Bluevelvetsofa · 10/10/2024 09:18

Ultimately, the employer must do what is best for the business- the business that employs you and pays you.

The employer will want to ensure that business thrives, clients are happy and employees are productive. Not sure your request enables that.

Coolblur · 10/10/2024 09:18

You have a legal right to request flexible working. Your employer can refuse if it adversely affects the business' needs. They are already telling you it does so they have grounds and more than enough evidence to refuse. While that may be disappointing, your choice is stay there on your pre-baby working hours, look for a new job that better fits your life, or if the issue is childcare, perhaps your partner could request flexible working instead.

MichaelandKirk · 10/10/2024 09:17

I am afraid that they are bound to refuse your request. Can you not see that messing clients around and expecting them to understand that projects will be delayed because you feel you are entitled to spend time with your child is a terrible reason to jusify what you are asking for!

And as for expecting your collegues to pick it up - well of course they wont mind too...