To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

Before my DC started school I used to work 4 days with Wednesdays off. I really liked that as I was only ever one more day away from a day off with them. It also worked well for my employer. Definitely worth asking but being flexible on the day of the week. And yes as others have mentioned point them in the direction of the Government plans.

Also about remote working 😆.

I work full time now but a few jobs ago I worked 4 days for 80percent pay and did a full time job (no bit of my work were given to anyone else).

It was fine as lots of people took annual leave on Fridays anyway and lots of the people we dealt with were less available on Fridays as well.

Crusade? Nice one ... I guess. I'm answering posts when other posters have replied to me. My opinion and experience is as valid as everyone else's on this thread, and is based on my 20yr experience of working with HR teams. It is exceptionally seldom flexi working – especially one asking for 4 days a week – has be legitimately refused if it is escalated within the companies I've worked for.

My advice is solely to OP, so it's really none of my concern what you post.

Unfortunately it does look like they are putting the feelers out early about not agreeing to this arrangement long term.

Pre covid I requested part time hours at my old job and gave lots of different options for how it could work. Ultimately they said it was full time or nothing. I had to make a decision if I valued the job more than time with my very young child. I decided to let the job go and found a part time role pretty quicker which suited my needs better (albeit in a different sector to my previous role). I would say that even if your company did approve your flexible working request, they do not sound particularly supportive of working parents and I’d question how happy you would be in the long term at this company.

But flexi working isn’t the same as reducing to 0.8hrs is it? If OP asked for flexible hours, WFH, so that she do her full 5 day week I’s agree that her employer would find it hard to deny.

But it may be there is an element of her job that can only be done in the office, that she and colleagues provide lunch time cover so the office/phones are physically manned from 9-5 (or whatever the hours are) - this may be causing issues on Fridays that they are muddling through with significant stress for the short-term in the knowledge she will be back soon.

They may have a folder full of angry emails from clients pissed off about delays that they are fielding on the ‘it’s only temporary’ basis (ie evidence that it is adversely impacting clients); they may have HR files recording colleagues registering stress due to unfair workload expectations on Fridays that have been advised to please try and suck it up as it’s only 3 more months… for all we know there is plenty of evidence that OP’s current work practices (which even she openly states leads to delays or colleagues picking up her slack) are negatively impacting the business. The fact that deadlines are not being met will be recorded… and be evidence. Loss of ‘client goodwill’ is an intangible asset that is as significant as bottom line profit.

Without knowing the precise nature of the business we cannot know what the impact is, but I’d guess there is likely plenty of evidence available (or easily accessible with a quick, HR-lead survey of colleagues work output/efficiency/well-being) that would shore up their case.

Not ideal but could you do 2 half days maybe Monday and Friday? Work in the mornings tackle/finish any thing urgent on those mornings. Then pick up child at lunch from Nursey and have afternoons to do classes/ activities etc

The business reasons are strong even in this one post

A one day delay on the tasks I pick up isn’t the end of the world

Not in your biased opinion, but it is in your companies opinion

It wouldn’t be the same client each time and most are understanding

Impacting quality of service to clients is a valid business risk

Delays happen for other reasons too - sickness, too much work at once

You working 4 days a week would compound these issues

You have the legal right to request, they have the legal right to reject and it sounds like from your own comments and description of your type of work they have strong grounds.

If you want flexible working you will need to come up with a proposal that does not make work late, impact some clients, impact colleagues significantly or increase any delays further. It might mean you don't get exactly what you would like.

Nope.

Criminal cases require proof. (Beyond reasonable doubt.)

Employment cases require balance of probability. Evidence can be helpful (you’ll note the OP’s own evidence that work is being delayed and others are having additional workload to accommodate her) but proof isn’t an element of employment matters.

No idea what your involvement is, but as a fully qualified and chartered HR professional of many many years, I have an unbeaten record of tribunals, and a lot of cases that didn’t get to that point because the above was explained to employees by their legal/union reps and they saw sense.

whatever crusade you’re on it appears to be successful enough brute force rather than an understanding of employment law.

My husband and I have the same arrangement, and I do compressed hours (90% over 4 days). Full time compressed is very hard on the employee I think, but 90% was a good compromise for my manager and myself.

Some ideas to explore:

• find a nursery or other childcare setting that open earlier. I do drop off at 7:30am to be at work at 8 if I WFH, 8:30 if I have to commute

• if I have to do pickup from the office, so leave earlier, we find a way with my husband to make up for those hours during the week. For instance he will do drop off one days and his day start later. My work is flexible enough that as long as the task is completed on time, they don't really care when I do it

• some of my colleagues on compressed hours will work early morning/later evening for an hour. So usually after the kids go to bed.

Another option, that actually came from one of our director, is that she gets a nanny/babysitter on Fridays to make up for those few hours. So officially she does 100% over 4.5 days, but at least her child has a routine at home on Fridays (half with nanny, half with her mum).

I think you have to accept that some jobs are very possible part time and others are much harder. It sounds like cover rather than hours per se is important for the OPs role.

I started off doing 3 days a week Tuesday- Thursday and it was not really workable - too much time would pass from the Thursday to Tuesday and I’d end up doing work on a non-working day. I then moved to a 4 day week with a Monday off and it worked really well. Fridays I could get my head down when it was often quieter and complete stuff. I found that things often escalated on a Thursday and being away on a Friday would have been an issue. I also found that my team could get on with stuff on Monday and have things ready for me to look at on Tuesday. I really liked that pattern. In my current role I work full time but do compressed hours to do a 9 day fortnight with every other Friday off and that works well.

I would personally never go back to a full time Monday to Friday but accept that means there are some jobs I cant do well and wouldn’t apply for them.

In the OPs case, she may have more luck looking at a job share arrangement as it sounds like cover is important for business need. I suspect compressing wouldn’t work that well.

Your manager is telling you it’s not working. I imagine this is in part because the team are telling the manager it’s not working and/or clients are telling them.

Given you are having a three month trial of the working pattern you’d be asking for, I would say you have no chance of having the flexi working request approved.

You having to work the same schedule as your colleagues isn't the end of the world either.

Being a parent doesn't give you special rights.

For 6 months then – 3 months ago now til end of the year. Same difference. All the other points stand.

@Didimum no they've not been allowing it for a full year.

RTFT

No – I have literally been present with unions and with ACAS representatives during staff grievances on denied flexi working. If at that point, the onus is on the company to provide proof, not just have the opinion of.

Yes, they can 'say they are facing difficulty', but they have to provide proof of it. If they are receiving complaints they have to provide proof of it. It may be unlikely having a 1 day a week replacement wouldn't negate it, but they have to prove that it doesn't.

The company is already in a weakened position to deny because they are already allowing it and have been/will be for a full year.

What aren't you understanding about the word 'proof'.

The operational needs of the business come first, and if your request makes things harder for them, they are under no obligation to approve a FWR.

I don't have Friday off btw. Due to business needs.

@Didimum ah so it's just word of mouth.

The business can well say that they're facing difficulty because of the projects being late. I'd imagine they're facing constant complaints. It's also unlikely that having someone work one day a week negates those issues because they'd still have to hand over the projects to them.

I did what you do. At the moment they're paying you for 5 days work but, due to your accrued holiday, you're working 4 days. You're entitled to holiday. It's not your fault they have arranged adequate holiday cover. My manager made similar noises about moving to a PT contract because I told him I was struggling to do 5 days work in 4 days (because they also hadn't arranged adequate holiday cover). A change of contract would be beneficial as they'd be paying you for fewer hours, they would (should) have more manageable expectations of your workload and they would have the financial capacity to arrange a job share (potentially, most people want more than 1 day, so that's worth keeping in mind). You can't do 37.5 hours of work in 30 hours and they shouldn't be expecting that whether you're on holiday or on 0.8fte.

FWIW I ended up leaving that job. But negotiated 0.8 in my new one.

A source for what? I've said it's from my very experienced HR teams who are well trained.

'Delivering later' as a statement does not mean anything, because you need to provide proof that delivering later is a tangible harm. That needs to come from financial losses, loss of clients etc.

And did you ignore recruiting for 1 day a week? They also need to demonstrate they can't do that, and not just say it.

I think the example you give would be a reason they could reasonably deny. Would a different day off work eg Monday or Wednesday? Or compressing hours into 4 days? I worked in an office where everyone was also full time when I put in flex request it was partly denied because granting it for me would make it difficult to refuse others. In end I did same as you used my annual leave to temporarily work part time and used my al days to form an exit plan into a different career.

@Didimum source for that?

It's clear it doesn't work because projects are being delivered later and later. Bear in mind that this comes from OP who thinks it's "not the end of the world". You can bet it's worse than the OP says, because OP wants to seem like the reasonable one.

Loads do. Have you ever worked in a business where people work literally flat out for 8 hours a day? No chats, no coffees, no meaningless meetings that could be emails, every single piece of work is productive and profit producing. 8 hours solid a day, every day of the week?

The only workplaces that work like that all the time are hell to work in, and burn though staff very quickly. Most businesses have some form of slack in them.

Especially if you work in an industry where there a busy periods and fallow periods (insurance, accountancy etc) if you're still going at 100% capacity during the first month of the quarter, you're going to be massively under resourced at quarter end reporting.

If your teams are EVER at over 100% capacity, you're in a badly run business.

I am willing to bet that you are the least popular person in the office these days. You are routinely handing off your work to colleagues to cover for you and/or are the direct reason that work is not being done to deadline. I am a bit concerned that in 4 years time, you'll be the one expecting to never ever have to work school holidays and the rest of them must just suck it up to accomodate your family time.

Personally, I think they would have had every right to refuse to let you take your annual leave in the form of these endless Fridays and it seems very unlikely they'll agree to this arrangement long term.

Flexible working has to be a solution that does not negatively impact the business. Possibly, changing your non-working day to a different day would be a good option. Or you do a version of compressed where you work longer days for 2 days a week and then on the last day you only do a half day.

Or you discuss dropping your hours more noticeably to accomodate the possibility of a job share so that he role is still covered 5 days a week.

Her boss would need sound prove of financial loss over this period of 4 days a week for a year to prove it doesn't work. And if it doesn't work, then the company should deny the annual leave being used like this – they haven't so they don't have a leg to stand on there. The company would also have to try to advertise to recruit for a 1 day a week replacement and show an inability to recruit.

I have been through mediations with ACAS, unions and threatened tribunals for flexi working many times. If employees choose to take it further, then in most cases the company would not be successful.